Ludia Forums

2021 Arena Suggestions

Well, looks like I’ve picked up the game more frequently again, so it’s back to trying to improve the least-impressive but most-dominating aspect of the game for us casuals. Three things to cover: boosts, swap-in attacks, and finally matchmaking.

Boosts

Naturally, the simplest fix would be to remove them. Preferably while also refunding in dinobucks the amount they’d have been purchased at, whether they were bought or earned, as to placate those spending money on the game; taking the financial hit would be the price paid for such a poor implementation.

Naturally, this is never going to happen.

So, with that in mind, I have a different proposal: Lower the number of maximum boosts based on the dinosaur type, so that the integrity of the flavour of JP can be maintained, while expanding boosts to cover more than just the raw stats. Example: A Sauropod should NEVER be able to outrun a raptor, but can be boosted to outrun a Theropod. A Theropod should never be boosted to outrun a chicken runner, but can be boosted to match a base raptor. A Raptor can be boosted to match a chicken, unless that chicken was also boosted. As for expanding boosts, make it so that boosts can add 1% per boost point to resistances, up to a maximum of 50%, and to armour and crit up to 20%. Finally, to make this work and alleviate frustrations, make boosts free to shift around in perpetuity and at any time; we’d still want to keep a good number of creatures boosted beyond our initial team, so money matters to those unwilling to wait.

Swap-In Attacks

Quite simply, these should not exist.

Whether for fun or in strategic play, swap-in attacks as they currently are do not lend themselves to being anything other than cheap shots considering they go before any other move, regardless of speed or priority. Not only does this break immersion more profoundly than anything else in the game (which I admit is a lot), it takes the actual skill out of the game, knocks the fun out of pitting your favoured dino against theirs, and leaves a general taste of foul play/bad sportsmanship. Swap-In attacks should be changed to be Swap-in effects if they’re to remain immediately, or else they should be swapped in at the speed of the dino using them. For example, someone tries to save a dino from certain death and swap in a Rhino/Trike/Rat; the winning player - who at this point is a safe bet outplayed their opponent, is moving fast enough to win. The SIA dino is immediately switched, but takes the hit intended for the doomed dino. It then makes its own attack, buying possibly an extra turn. It doesn’t necessarily steal a win, and DOES add a strategic element forcing the opponent to guess whether they should go for a rampage or a distracting move to mitigate incoming damage. However, this way people who have invested in their Rats, Rhinos, and other …things still get usage out of them without them being nearly as skill- or strategy-breaking.

Matchmaking

Ahh, yes, matchmaking. Doomed from the beginning for its ignorant simplicity and only compounded in error ever since with half-measures and misunderstood metrics. I don’t have a perfect solution, but I do have a solution that would be better. And it’s not even mine, not completely.

The simple fix: matchmaking is based on the strongest member of your team, with a formula that takes into account potential damage, speed, and HP along with rarity. (Note I’m leaving level out of this, as boosts would be taken into account in the above stats). Trophies ONLY affect your rewards, which remain based in volume upon the arena you are currently assigned to.

This should serve to limit those kinds of teams which are the worst in mid-to-low games with a 20+ boosted Thor and a handful of level 10 commons just wasting other players’ time, while hopefully also mitigating some of the issues at the top and ensuring that top-tier players are only facing other top-tier players.

A side effect: your trophies gained also vary based on the above stats on your team as compared to your opponent, rather than a flat 30. The greater your power and rarity as compared to your opponent, the greater the trophy count; conversely, the lower the power, the less your gains.

While this does mean that newer players will initially find it slower to progress, they SHOULD until they begin getting more powerful, rarer creatures. It also means droppers would be required to use similar creatures if they want to stay in lower arenas for the incubators, rather than steamroll low-level players ruining the experience for them. Collections would be important again, those (like myself) wanting to play with a multitude of creatures could do so and have an enjoyable experience rather than a curb-stomp, and the competitive players can switch between playing at their best and playing for fun at will. Another side-effect of the change in trophy gains is that concerns of those elitists that don’t believe anyone but those with the best creatures should have the highest trophy count are also addressed in a way that ought to be suitable to them: while in theory it would be possible for an all-low-level common team to get trophies in the multiple thousands, in practice it would take over a year to accomplish and would likely fail before a trophy reset occurred.

I’m happy to flesh out any of these ideas and invite constructive commentary!

I like this, except for one thing. Expanding boosts. By doing this, it could effectively break the game. What I (and from what I’ve seen, quite a few people) think is that the speed boosts need a nerf. Instead of expanding and making even more op creatures with boosts, have speed be reduced to 1 speed per boost instead of 2.

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I think that’s a great idea. I think speed, damage, and HP should be reduced per point to make it more of a tactical consideration if you could also include armour, resistance, and crit as viable or flavourful alternatives.

Edit: just to be clear, I also agree that without doing it thoughtfully, expanding boosts could indeed break the game - but, it breaks the game much the same way that boosts originally ‘broke’ the game. Those with them had a notable advantage over those without. I think tweaking it like this (making each boost more of a climb and more of an ‘edge’ bonus rather than a game-changer) is better both for customization and for keeping the game at a playable level.

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Boosts changes make little difference beyond annoying those who find their game play experience changed significantly by having meh boosts. Doubt Ludia wants to risk a massive pod of whales crashing on them financially.

The complexity of your swap in ideas means the fat of the game which is already huge is gonna be more and thus the game is gonna be very laggy and ineffective. Best to keep them simple.

Matchmaking is a bugbear and your idea in theory would be nice if it couldn’t be exploited by players who want to win and will build teams to farm trophies to evade the top players. We had this problem in 1.7 where a player with a lvl 20 average team was 2nd and many players who had lvl 27 average teams were out of the top 1000. Essentially progress and team improvement isn’t as important as finding that sweet spot where you just can steamroll and farm 1000s of trophies.

There is not much Ludia is able to do with arena without making a section of the playerbase usually the high rollers annoyed. As much as we think the majority would matter more than the small high rolling minority, the short term losses from the high rolls pulling out is pretty painful and unlikely to be covered by the majority. Just having the top 2 players boycott the game for 2 weeks was enough for Ludia to scramble to fix arena for the better then in 2.3 for the worse.

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I’m not sure I understand your points of contention. Boost changes are what the bulk of the community has been asking for since the implementation of boosts. My suggestions retain their superiority while narrowing the gap, meaning the whales would have more people to play against, even if they have to actually work a little harder for it. The game should require at least a little bit of thought, instead of just artificially inflating numbers by throwing cash at it.

I’m equally puzzled by what you mean by the complexity of my swap-in ideas; my idea is essentially (a) no more damage-dealing attacks, only effects, or (b) they go at the speed of the dino rather than at a higher rate than Priority. That’s it. There’s no complexity behind it; the dinosaur’s speed is already coded.

How would my idea for matchmaking be exploited? More to the point, if the greater amount of trophies REQUIRES the higher-caliber dinosaurs, then why would using lesser teams for fewer rewards and a much longer slog be seen as a bad idea? More to the point, why would avoiding higher-level players even be a bad idea, when say I, myself, have no desire to play against them? I’d rather play with my epics and legendaries than grind ad nauseum for a chance to gain another unique, JUST to throw myself at someone whose uniques are boosted beyond ridiculous levels so I can be beat on for an hour before I get my first incubator?

I fail to see how the plan I laid out could lead to the problems you’re trying to describe. Could you please explain that?

So long as you can avoid playing the top players and be top in trophies, why bother to build a strong team? Just play lower players and grind them to catch up with the top. Its more grind sure but its easier and you dun even need a strong team.

Just build a team.of sarcorixis, rhino, monolemetrodon and you can dominate. There is no incentive to build a strong team to get the good rewards. Just find the Goldilocks point and grind from there. Also that is quite complicated so more flab. Grind for exploiters is not difficult. I wouldn’t bother to do so but I know a lot of players who are doing so.

Well that’s not a good fix for matchmaking. I have a 25 Indom with a base of 1964 damage and 127 speed, how is that going to work when I only have 2 other 22’s on my team, my 22 one is sat. And the rest are 21 and 20. Even if you lower boost significance, then it will still have 15 attack and 10 speed boosts. I’ll literally be playing other 25’ who have all 25’s. I’ll be screwed

I feel there are a few assumptions and fallacies you’re making here, giving you a grossly erroneous view of both the game and the changes I’m suggesting.

First, there are several reasons entirely unrelated to PvP to promote the progress of a strong set of dinosaurs; I know, because I continue to progress and Arena is my LEAST favourite function of the game. The first and most obvious is the collection. You can’t, by the mechanics of the game, collect all the dinosaurs unless you level up the hybrid components, many of them all the way to 20. So there’s that. Secondly, there’s the fun aspect of the game; I enjoy using a large mix of dinosaurs and rotate them out as I test them all (and look at their beautifully-rendered graphics), something I can’t do if I’m chasing trophies. Thirdly, you’re assuming that people play arenas to chase trophies; I seriously doubt that most people play arenas for anything other than incubators, at this point. Which, incidentally, I why I put up with the Arena at all considering the state it’s in. Fourth, we’re at a point where we have both Strike Towers and Raids that require an assortment of levelled dinosaurs.

Now if I missed anything there that might somehow be trumped by trophy-chasing, please let me know.

As for the team make-up, those dinosaurs are beaten on a regular basis, too. Out of them, only the Rhino is in a position of spite; the other two can be dealt with handily. I know, I’ve beaten them in a couple arenas since my return (which is how I clued into this mini-meta), and I’m not particularly threatened by them. Perhaps you could explain how a sweet-spot for exploits, as it were, would continue given my suggestions above? Clearly I’m missing something you’re trying to get across.

Unless I miss my guess, if you use an overly-boosted Indominus like that and a bunch of lower-levelled dinosaurs whose stats get averaged out you will likely face someone, like me, with more averaged and ultimately inferior power levels and you use that one Indominus to wipe the floor with me, in which case you’re precisely the kind of player I want to dissuade from using that tactic. :slight_smile: No offense.

That kind of play is what’s ruining mid-game experiences for us. The fact that you can come in with such a colossal monster and obliterate whatever you see in the misguided matchmaking attempt we currently have is entirely antithetical to fun and competitive gameplay.

Did I misinterpret your comment, or is that what you were getting at?

Goldilocks point of team building is when your team is at its best chance of winning. Based on power matchmaking, you can build a lvl 20 team.of epics including Rixis and then never have to play anyone with stronger dinos or even when you do its extremely rare.

Rixis is unique in that if you bring in higher rarities its beatable but with some tweaking and a matchmaker which ensures you will not be matched with something stronger you can dominate and rise up pretty fast the leaderboard while playing players who are many arenas below you.

I fail to see how that one dinosaur upsets the meta this badly when each of its moves is planned and telegraphed. Either that, or all the Sarcorixis players I’ve ever played simply aren’t playing it the way you know how, because while I can see Sarcorixis is good, it’s a far cry from unbeatable, even on a level playing field. It’s possible I’m not seeing something, but I kill that croc plenty.

In any case, I still also fail to see the problem of finding a niche; I’d rather play with those of equal power and rarity than be constantly thrown against what’s happening now. The “goldilocks” issue you’re describing is less of an issue as I see it to the gross mismanagement of trophy-based, power-shifted types of matchmaking we currently have.

Give me someone who plays all the same power levels across their team and make it comparable to mine over what we have now ANY day of the week, even if it’s a croc every second match. I can beat the croc. I can’t beat a level 25 Thor or Indoraptor when my highest is a level 18 legendary.

What would you suggest?

no, i started leveling it cuz i like it, then i didn’t have any uniques to level so i kept leveling it. it’s also just my favorite. it gets crushed a lot or it crushes a lot. i face mostly 23’s to 25’s.

my average team is level 22 with the rest of my boosts spread evenly. i started max boosting indy from a low level player so i kept doing that. i also did it for campagin which required a 24 creature and now i need 4 so im gonna become a normal player soon, prob in a month

my point was what if someone faces a much better player based on 1 dino. for example, the highest ive ever gone is 4757 but i might play people at like 4900

Oh good, I was hoping this is the case.

I have a similar example: my highest is Tryostronix at 24, with more than enough DNA to level to 25. I levelled that as well because it’s my favourite, and it’s one of the only legendaries that I could get that much DNA for in my region. It also has nearly all of the boosts I’ve collected over time because it’s a one-stop-shop Strike tower destroyer. The problem I have is that over even the long amount of time I’ve played it’s been slow going to get anything else up there; my next highest is 22, followed by a couple fresh uniques at 21 and hybrid components at 20. I’d like to my Tryostonix, but you know what? It just wouldn’t be fair to my opponent if things got averaged.

If I brought my 24 with an average rest of the team of 20, and fought someone whose best was 21 because they had an even spread, I’m pretty sure my Tryostronix would annihilate them pretty regularly. That isn’t tactical, it’s just overwhelming. The solution? I just don’t use it. Instead I use a lower-level team than I’m capable of because I have less DNA for more of what I like, and because I firmly believe that competitive matches should remain COMPETITIVE. In that spirit, it should be fun to play in the arena.

Playing against a monster much larger, more powerful, and faster than anything you’ve got any hope of beating is not fun. And if playing that monster when the opponent has next to no hope of beating it is fun, that should be a secondary consideration to a solution that would instead be fun for all.

Not that I’m necessarily 100% behind this, but what would your reaction be to a kind of artificial equalization? For example, let’s say matchmaking is based on your most powerful dinosaur, but for the arena there’s a hard cap of a maximum of 2 level differences between your lowest and your highest. Much like raids, your highest would be reduced in level (stats rearranged appropriately with boosts reduced if necessary). In this example, let’s say your lowest is level 20, but you want to play with Indominus who is 25. This would reduce Indominus to 22, be at its best stats for that level, and you would be able to play with your favourite AND keep the team composition competitive for you and your opponent.

Your thoughts?

i think i would rather have it be a lower level if it was a lower arena, like marshes it would be 16 or 20 based on the average level for that arena, not the average of my team. like the limit for sibo could be 10-15 and my 25 indom wouldnt be able to play in that arena but it could be level 22 in lockwood estate and would be at its normal level in aviary.

if it was lowered for 1 arena, and you passed it, your dino would go to the requirements for the next arena, unless it was never that high of a level in the first place.
kinds of like what raids do

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I think this is what the OP is trying to prevent from happening by encouraging more even stat distributions and levels across your team and your opponent’s

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That’s correct. While it might seem a poor deal for those of us such as myself and Colin who have a favoured dino substantially more developed than the entire rest of the team, it helps the overall competitive nature (and therefore the game in general) to make it as even a playing field as is possible with this much variance and RNG going into DNA collection.

See, I think this is a smart solution. We already know because of raids that it can be done, and we’ll still be able to play our favourites while giving the opposing team a literal fighting chance at winning.

A better PvP system would be key to having old players return and new players stick around, saturating the player pool for random fights. This would be a semi-simple way of making it work for everyone; unless someone has any other ideas, the only people I can see disagreeing with this are those that only care to utterly crush their opponents with no care to fomenting a more positive competitive environment.