A new move to counter flocks?

So I was thinking about different flock counters and the epics and rares are really lacking a flock counter. Also with 2.12 we got a resilient shielded group impact on Ankylomoloch which is the first group resilient move(if it worked properly) so why not give more Dino’s a resilient group move to bypass the flocks dodge and cloak. For epics a creature like brachiosaurus could have resilient rampage replaced with a group resilient rampage and resilient strike replaced with superiority strike. I think moves like these would make the counters way more fun with how dominate the flocks are in the tournaments. I remeber back when flocks were first released brobtalasmus was the perfect epic flock counter with good bulk, a resilient impact to bypass the dodge and the distraction and it also slowed down. Ever since 2.9 we have lost a lot of great options to counter flocks with resilients losing the ability to decelerate. I just think it’s time that we get more groupmoves for the epic and rare rarities to better counter the flocks

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There are several rare/epic resilient with group moves…I kept nodopatosaurus in my team right up to lockwood estates for that very reason (now stegodeus)

The problem with dinos that have group moves in the rare and epic rarity is they more or less have 1000 damage which doesn’t kill more than one flock member on any of the flocking dinos

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The flocks have been nerfed with 2.11 and 2.12. within tournaments. Skoona and Testa’s existence nerfs them in arena. Why do we need to nerf them more when this is the most balance they’ve ever been?

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It’s not a thread asking for a nerf to flocks, it’s a thread asking for a slight buff to the Resilient type abilities so that the Resilient class as a whole is better able to counter flocks. The only reasons Skoona and Testa can even counter flocks as well as they do is because of their high armor rating coupled with their counter and shield abilities, but the same cannot be said for the lower rarities.

But, from my perspective, if a class is better at beating flocks then the flocks will consequently get hurt even more.

And you mentioned that lower rarities struggle to counter flocks. This is far from the case. Antarctopelta is the strongest flock countering non hybrid and dominates non-hybrid tournaments due to this. Megalotops, Enteloceros, and Ankylomoloch are masters when hybrids are included (carnotarkus too…but it kinda sucks after 2.12)

In my eyes, these creatures are balanced due to their strong counters. If more are introduced we will witness a decline even more with these little guys which would be a punch to anyone who grinded Argentavis, coeluro, and compies.

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I will list some more counters to rare / epic flocks.

  • Antarctopelta
  • Ankylodicurus
  • Braciosaurus (ok)
  • Cervalces (ok)
  • Scutosaurus (ok)
  • Suchotator (ok)

And plenty others most likely undiscovered.

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How is a class that is supposed to beat flocks anyway being better at beating flocks going to hurt the flocks even more?

That’s like saying nobody should be getting better Water-type abilities in Pokémon because it’s going to hurt Fire-types even more, it makes absolutely no sense because that’s what’s supposed to happen anyway.

If there are Resilients that are excellent at dealing with flocks in what possible way is it going to make any meaningful difference if more Resilients can do it?

Well it will simply push them out of viability. It clearly shows that every new flock counter added to the game, the more the flocks viability is hurt.

It’s shown perfectly in the changes the previous tournament brought. The annoying pigeon (Argenteryx) once the best flock was pushed out of viability out of a small nerf + the addition of ankylomoloch. So this will happen but on a larger if more can beat flocks better.

Also, the meta creatures are always going to be strong against what’s suppose to be their weaknesses. If this wasn’t the case, this game would be based on team RNG and not skill.

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Wasn’t really a small nerf… healing ability was dropped from 2/3 to 1/3 & it took an unspoken speed nerf too, was faster than indorap now it isn’t, used to be my main counter to it with me not having uniques yet.

This is true. And I do admit, Argenteryx would continue to be quite strong if it wasn’t nerfed. However, the addition to more flock countering resilients puts a cap on how many you can use, or youre basically letting them get a 3-0 if you have a all flock team and they use resilients.

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Also… it’s speed never changed. It’s always 127.

image

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Pretty sure it was faster than indorap before the update?

Always 127 speed to my knowledge. Even if it was 128 speed, Indoraptor would still be faster due to it having the rarity advantage.

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I do not want to nerf them. I just want more epics/rares to have more group moves

If you buff a counter to something, then what the buffed creature is countering will therefore be nerfed. What’s happening here is just that but on a larger scale from my perspective.

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Pelta:

Ankylod:

Cervalces:

Suchtator:

Brachio and Scuto:


So what was that about there being a lot of epic flock counters? Teryx alone proved that only a third of this list can effectively counter flocks. I’m pretty sure Brachio was capable of beating every pure cunning below legendary until Argenteryx was added.

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That isn’t justifiable in the slightest though, nor is it really true. A creature does not become any less viable simply because it’s counters become better at countering it, it becomes less viable because the newer creatures have better abilities. You don’t see Erlidominus running around anymore not because Testacornibus and Skoonasaurus are the among the best Resilients, but because Erlikospyx, Phorurex, Gorgotrebex, and even Compsocaulus are far better than it.

If anything that’s a better argument for OP’s point, not against it. If any Resilient can reasonably take on Argenteryx and Coelhaast and win, then I won’t necessarily have to rely on either Ankymoloch or Mammotherium to bring them down now would I?

I fail to understand what the point here is.

That’s not how buffs and nerfs work, at all in fact.

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Suchotator wins by going LW-SS-SS.

Most balance they’ve been at does not equal balanced. The rare flocks definitely don’t need more counters, but some of the epic ones definitely do. It’s not even teryx that I’m talking about, it’s annoying old compy. While many epic non hybrids do counter compy, this doesn’t change the fact that a single swap can easily turn the tides. Pelta? Swap rhino/andrew/albert T1. Scuto? Swap to Andrew or albert. Diplod? Swap rhino T3. In all of these cases compy’s going to be at max hp or on 2 flocks(which is just better since the swap in will heal you). Compy can escape from all of it’s counters really easily, so I definitely think some epic non hybrids could use on escapes, or you could rework compy. Either way it needs to be a bit weaker. I think teryx is fine now tbh, but it needs an hp nerf or some hybrids need damage buffs/resilient group attacks since 1250 is quite a lot to try and punch through if you only have non resilient group moves.

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Just found that out a few minutes ago. Suchot wins, but not by much.