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A way to seperate Fierce from Defense Shattering

While chatting in a thread, Issah_Will and I had the idea of how to differentiate the two. Then, Mudkipz came up with something better. So here is the idea

For all those confused by the texts, the idea was the fierce disabled shields for multiple turns.

Fierce moves will get a new ability: remove a portion of the armor. This would be so that it wouldn’t mess up the move too much, but still give it a different aspect for Fierce. That way instead of just being Defense Shattering with cleansing vulnerability, now it actually has a role that could affect the match. Maybe if the effect activated, it would create small armor-piercing symbols being broken around the affected creature, although it could be something else. What it would be is one of 2 things. Either it would be removing 50% armor or removing 100% of whatever armor the creature has. Option 1 would use the system that Crit Chance Decrease uses, and Option 2 would use the percent of armor your creature has. And with it could come some new resistances. Say if a creature with 40% armor had gotten the debuff, but it had a resistance of 50%, it would either have 20 or 15% armor left, depending on if option 2 or 1 were used.

Hope y’all like it! Leave your thoughts down below!

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I’ve actually covered this before here:

Changes to Fierce attacks?

I never thought about a shield-disabling ability, but there are a few other ideas in there. To save time, the above post contains my main thoughts on fierce vs. defense shattering, if anyone is interested.

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I know you have, but this was a way I thought up, so I posted, I saw that topic though. They were good ideas

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To me though, shield prevention (or whatever you want to call it) doesn’t seem quite right. It’s usually easy enough to remove a shield already with Fierce, and many shields already have cooldowns. So if you break it, there’s often already a delay. And then if you did shield prevent, the shield-breaking ability of fierce moves then becomes useless in that matchup.

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Got it. I’ve updated comment to contextualize it.

True. This wouldn’t really matter in the arena, but in raids it could be a good tool. Although I think your ideas are better, this one is a little more unique. I myself would go with Crit Chance and Taunt Removal

I personally lean towards that combo myself.

I do like your idea though, but targeting armor instead. This is because armor is a stat that can be lowered for a given number of turns, which is a mechanic present for other stats (deceleration lowering speed, distraction lowering attack, cunning lowering crit chance, etc.). These kinds of reductions don’t yet apply to armor though, so there is opportunity here. But ability prevention just doesn’t exist. Like there are moves that remove dodge, but none that outright prevent you from using dodge in the first place. So I’m not sure if preventing shields from being used makes sense with how abilities work. But Fierce attacks could easily reduce/remove armor, like “reduce armor by 20% for two turns” or something. I actually really like that idea, so thank you for the inspiration!

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Yes, and that would help in the arena as well. I like it a lot!

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shield disabling on essentially a DS ability seems almost kind of pointless. i can seen this aspect working with armor piercing abilities tho.

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Yeah so for fierce/defense shattering, I would remove taunt removal from the later and add armor removal to the former (maybe reduce 20% for two turns or 100% for one turn or something). There would still be some dinos that are immune to vulnerable and have only shattering attack moves (like Tryo), but the taunt removal change makes them different enough.

If they went for 100%, they could even create “armor reduction resistance” (similar to crit reduction resistance) for dinos like Carbonemys that rely on their armor. They probably shouldn’t be entirely immune, but maybe 50% resistance, so they would still have some armor left. They probably shouldn’t use the same formula as crit reduction resistance though, because that’s still broken.

Yes. The most armor is the turtle, So maybe 50% at most? And with creatures that rely on armor, they could get resistances. If 50%, then I would go with Critical Reduction, although that is a terrible system for that, it could work for Armor removal. If it is 100%, though, I would have it 100% of what percent of armor it has. So if it has 50% armor and is 50% resistant, it would get 25% armor reduction. How does this sound?

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That sounds great to me! They need to fix crit chance so it works like that too.

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But taking away the taunt removal from defense shattering would mess up raid strategies, like the pyrri one. I think It should keep that. But i like the Idea of armor removal as a fierce effect.

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so how about separating armor piercing and defense shattering again. then make the fierce abilities the combo of both? so AP will bypass armor, but not shields. and DS will break shields but not bypass armor. and Fierce can do both.

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I don’t think that’s a good idea. That’s a huge nerf for anything with defense shattering. The ability is fine as It is. It’s fierce that needs a buff.

Fair. was trying to think of how to buff fierce without overdoing it.

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Someone gave this idea before when tanks weren’t that good. But that’s basically making defense shattering abilities a worse version of nullifying abilities. I don’t think It fits them.
Well, fierce is pretty basic as It is, i liked ideas of It cleansing decel and giving a slight speed buff, or raising the crit chance, or removing the opponent’s armor for a few turns. But you’re right, It shouldn’t be overdone.

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I would do a deceleration prevention move for fierce cuz it counters resilient.

Thing is though is that now we have a move that can cleanse deceleration every turn on high damage and medium high to high health chompers. We don’t really need that. Im with the armor removal myself, and will likely edit this entire thing so that is goes with the armor removal.

It has been edited.

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