Ludia Forums

Asynchronous PvP

Very reasonable, but there are two things that make me sceptical that teams are created from real players.

  1. It very often (almost always) happens that a new creature is released and you see very high level versions of that creature in a battle within minutes. Sometimes it even occurs that you have three opponents of this creature and sometimes you even see them in a battle before they are released.

  2. Opponents in PvPs almost never level their creature to the maximum possible level. There is no plausible reason to send a creature with level 17 or 18 instead of level 20 into a battle.

I do not think that such a big amount of real players is so silly.
But this is only another assumption.

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I do number 2 with a lot of my dinosaurs because I’m trying to keep a certain level of ferocity amongst all my dinosaurs. My son also does that because he really likes the animations and doesn’t want to “use them all up”. I can tell you from experience that people do all sorts of crazy things for many different reasons that we could never think of, and those are the kinds of tells that indicate that it’s real people.

As I mentioned if the AI did silly plays that didn’t make sense, that would be a more realistic AI than the one we have that always tries to do what it thinks is the optimum.

For number 1, I don’t have any direct evidence for this game, but I don’t know why you think that is not expected in this type of game. People who are very much into a game will gladly go into the store and spend hundreds of dollars to get the cool pack with all the newest cards/creatures/characters, level them up and send them into battle as soon as they come out. That is not uncommon in mobile gaming.

Having said that, you could very well be correct and it could be that the devs are inserting more instances of teams with the latest dinos, but I wouldn’t really think they would need to.

To follow on @Tommi’s points, we often get new creatures in the game that aren’t available other than for REAL money like the Leedsichthys or the Gen 2 T-Rex showing up WAY more than would be realistic if these were all real players. Sure, there’s a few whales out there paying for these creatures. But with new releases, they show up all the time for ALL of us. There’s just no way THAT many players are paying money to get stuff in the game. It is however quite reasonable that Ludia uses these creatures as opponents to entice players into paying money to get them.

Likewise the point about the level of the opponents. Sure, we all have a few creatures we haven’t leveled up all the way. But the majority of players that have played for any length of time aren’t doing PvPs with their best stuff. The ones we do PvPs with therefore are almost always fully leveled up. You can discount occasional non-leveled up opponents but we get them ALL the time. Almost every match. The same is the case with weird team lineups and actions… sure even real players do bizarre stuff from time to time. But not at the frequency that we see these in the game… which is VERY often.

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I do number 2 too but only for legendary hybrids or Superhybrids to keep my lineup balanced.
From almost every screenshot of lineups here in our forum I conclude that the vast majority of players level ordinary creatures instantly to either level 10, 20, 30 or 40 if they can. Of course there could be some of us who do not but I do not think they are representative.
You almost never have opponents with level 10, 20, 30 or 40 in PvPs which is not reasonable from my point of view.

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I also can’t imagine a real player would put a splinter mod on a level 1 common. Even if he is not that skilled and smart he would know, that there is really no sense doing this. I also just can agree @Mary_Jo.

Exactly. Sure, there’s always certainly players that will occasionally do silly or weird stuff (trying to win tournament rounds with 3 T-Rexes for instance!) But most definitely not at the frequency that such things happen in this game with the PvP opponents. SR and Legendary mods in particular are almost more likely to NOT be where you would expect a human player to put them… which makes little sense when you figure they would have actually paid DBs to get that mod.

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Also, don’t see how even if this was what was happening, how it would be considered asynchronous PvP anyway. That typically means players are still battling each other, just not in real time. Think Words with Friends. Each player takes their turn, and then waits for the other player to go and back and forth they go but not in real time. There’s some slight variations on how an asynchronous PvP can work but ultimately one player will win and the other will lose based on their interactions.

I don’t see how when I am always controlling my dinos and the other side is the AI controlling it, how that is a PvP asynchronous or otherwise. It’s simply NOT. When I lose, it’s not because some other real player did something to cause it. Which is ultimately what a PvP is about. A computer randomly picking some lineup another player used in their match against that computer doesn’t make it any more of a PvP than if we are just playing dinos picked by the computer in the first place.

I’ll take your word for it. Would it be safe to assume that the PvP teams we face are a combination of real player created teams and fabricated teams?

Since we all do not know for sure that’s fair enough.

I would say they are 100% fabricated. Why would they take the time, space, and work that it would take to store every PvP match /lineup real players have used? It would be cheaper and easier to have the programming generate a random team that meets certain criteria based on the team you bring to the table. After said match it disappears into the abyss never to be seen again.

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Yes, my feeling exactly. There just wouldn’t be any benefit to doing it and developer time to create something with no benefit is not something any company does.

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Regarding asynchronous pvp, its just a commonly used term. It is used to refer to combat when one player is active, but the other is not. I understand it should probably be used for actual turn-based pvp, but I see it used a lot for card battles that don’t have any interaction at all and its just the game using another player’s team or home base (like clash of clans). So, just a badly named term.

Thank you for this thread!! I had hoped the PvPs were real, but as I played for longer I had the same suspicions that many have laid out here…

Regarding storing existing teams vs generating random teams.

Storing existing data is extremely easy and cheap usually easier and far more efficient than writing an algorithm to generate a decent random composition. They are likely storing the teams anyway for history and telemetry. Take into account that they would also have to generate those little pictures that look like facebook profile pictures for each random “user” they generate.

AI battles based on player constructed teams is a very common practice in mobile games. Why go to the trouble of generating anything and doing things differently when your player base does the work for you and it generates results that are closer to what is being advertised?

Agree that it definitely is often misused… but correct usage still requires that each player’s actions in some way do impact the battle, regardless of whether it’s an actual turn-by-turn interaction or not. That’s definitely not happening here.

For the very reason I pointed out… because it lets them put creatures in a lot more often that will hopefully entice players to pay to get them.

And we almost never see lineups that match what we know a lot of players use, like 2 commons and an Indoraptor. The type of stuff the AI teams do stays within boundaries that we know players don’t.

The PvE’s clearly are not using player teams, so it fails logic that Ludia would create a completely different way of doing lineups for PvPs, when they can just use existing PvE code to creating random lineups, and just tweak it to not use the lvl 40+ stuff.

Storing player photo images and rotating them randomly through battles is a completely different thing, since you don’t have to match them to the player’s level. There’s nothing about doing this that would support that they store full team data.

Regardless, I’m not sure why you are SO determined to explain away the obvious lack of a PvP in the game, but I don’t know that I want to continue trying to convince someone that is so determined to see it another way.

The PvP aspect of it would be that the teams are created by other players. But it sounds like you and Sionsith (and many others, I imagine) don’t believe that is the case. From my point of view, I’m still of the opinion that the team composition is created from other player’s teams.

You are certainly welcome to have your own opinion. I just don’t see it, particularly coming from a background of being a programmer myself.

I find this a very interesting discussion and I was trying to use logic and past experience to deduce the most likely explanation for what is happening. I’m usually very curious to find out how other developers make their games and also how players perceive the results. My apologies if I am making it annoying. I’ll stop now because I don’t wan’t to become antagonistic.

I agree that I like to debate things like this as well. But it does get to a point where the same arguments just are getting recycled so isn’t really productive at that point.