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Attack, damage, and armor interactions

I did some (keyword: some) testing on the impact of attack, damage range, and armor. I couldn’t find a prior post that went through this nor any useful communication from the developers on the topic; if anyone is aware of such resources please guide me.

All values are posted below the “conclusions” section. Lots of details and such below but my major takeaway is that I think it might be the case that the formula is:
Final damage = base damage x 0.4 x (attack - armor) to a limit of ~300% boosted damage.

Disclaimer: Testing without control of all the variables is tough so my conclusions are based on an incomplete set of data. That said, I think this is how it works, though it’s based more on eyeball tests than hard numbers.

Conclusions

1. Armor reduces damage by some linear coefficient; for every point of armor, an entity takes less damage from an attack

  • a. Unclear if this has a ceiling, though it likely does given a recent post suggesting 1 billion armor doesn’t further reduce (I suspect armor value of 500 above opponent’s Attack is the max mitigation, somewhere I’d eyeball around 60-75% mitigation)
  • b. Unclear if this has a consistent effect across entities
  • c. Unclear how this interacts with the Attack stat
  • d. Unclear if this has a floor
  • e. I do not believe armor reduces damage in a 1:1 fashion, I do believe it is percentage based
  • f. I believe the percentage is in the 0.4%-0.5% damage reduction per point of armor -range with a cap at 60-75% reduction (or when removed, a 3-4 fold increase in damage dealt)
  • g. Unclear if certain units bypass armor, like Dopples
    2. Corollary: reducing target armor increases all attackers’ damage by X% per point of armor lost
  • a. Reduction effects reduce the current armor level of a target. If a target is already debuffed, the new debuff will affect the debuffed value
  • b. This means % reduction in armor is less effective as it is stacked; the first 50% or 75% debuff does much more work than the next ones added on
  • c. There is a bug where armor reduction falls off incorrectly, but applies correctly, which is to the player’s disadvantage. If a 75% and 50% reduction debuff are in place and the 75% falls off, the target will have significantly more armor than it should
    3. When Attack is close to Armor, the character does close to the listed damage on the paper doll x the weapon’s damage description
    4. Attack increases damage by X per point and can go beyond the listed damage ranges, sometimes substantially
  • a. I believe the value is somehow armor-driven based on “3”, so I’m guessing it’s something like Armor - Attack = VALUE x % = impact on damage done
  • b. Attack:Armor ratio (or simple subtraction) provides a damage increase or decrease, again I think it caps around +approx 3-4 fold damage
  • c. if this is correct, buffing attack on characters to go from below to above target armor creates the most noticeable swings in damage improvement
    5. Take home points
  • a. Increasing Attack will increase your character’s damage beyond the listed ranges, and appears to cap at around 300% increased damage (mechanic here unknown; cap vs asymptote perhaps?)
  • b. Increasing Attack to around 200 above target armor is a kind of efficient sweet-spot
  • c. Reducing armor of your opponent will increase relative to the number of points of armor the target lost, meaning each additionally stacked armor debuff is less effective, and % armor debuffs are proportionally effective the higher the armor of your target
  • d. Due to the weird nature of caps, boosting the attack:armor ratio of low-attack characters yields the most striking results

Why do I think those things? Well, I did my testing with a level 10 Naomlen (described below). I used her epic dagger which does 50% of her listed damage per hit and hits 4 times, letting me average damage/hit and get some ranges to control variability a bit. I discarded all critical strikes or weapon proc attacks (where she hits for 75% instead of 50% per attack) for consistency. I then farmed lvl 12 Argathakul, debuffing her armor to different values and buffing Naomlen’s attack to different values. All values listed below are gathered from pressing and holding Argathakul and Naomlen on the turn I had Naomlen attack. This was incredibly boring so the data set isn’t remotely robust or complete.

It seems like when I boost Naomlen’s Attack, she gets to a ceiling of improved damage relative to armor earlier (eg with an attack boost, at armor level 170 she hits like she’s attacking armor 85). It also seems that reducing armor from 80 to 40 or 40 to 3 doesn’t improve damage much, which is suggestive that the raw number of armor points is the effective stat and not the relative amount of armor from base.

Lvl 10 Naomlen stats compared to Argathakul’s stats posted below. Format is AC/damage dealt

Naomlen stats: level 10/attack 529/listed damage 781-953/predicted average per hit: 434 (50% of 781-953)
339/580-680
339/570-700
339/600-650
339/650
339/600-700
339/650
AVERAGE: 640
254/700-800
AVERAGE 750
180/890
170/~900
170/850-950
AVERAGE 900
151/950
85/1100-1300
AVERAGE 1200
43/1200-1300
43/1200-1400
43/1200-1300
43/1200-1400
AVERAGE 1275
22/1200-1300
22/1200-1400
22/1200-1400
AVERAGE 1280
11/1350
03/1340

Naomlen stats: level 10/attack 738/damage 781-953/predicted average per hit: 434 (50% of 781-953)
339/700-750
339/750
AVERAGE ~740
85/1350 (outlier)
43/1250-1300
43/1200-1350
AVERAGE 1275

Naomlen stats: level 10/attack 879/damage 781-953/predicted average per hit: 434 (50% of 781-953)
170/1215
85/1325
43/1325

Naomlen stats: level 10/attack 676/damage 781-953/predicted average per hit: 434 (50% of 781-953)
265/800

A reformat of the first series of data in which we’re looking at the amount of Attack above Armor compared to the fold increase in damage from base. Shown as (Attack minus Armor)/(average damage)/(relative increase from paper doll)

190/640 (1.5x)
275/750 (1.7x)
359/900 (2.1x)
444/1200 (2.75x)
486/1275 (2.9x)
507/1280 (2.9x)
518/1360 (3.1x)
526/1340 (3.1x)

Ludia
The regression (r value .98, highly correlated) suggests for every point of attack above armor, add 0.4% damage to your base attack. The other data sets suggest this caps out however so the regression ought to plateau, otherwise we’d see 4x damage when Naomlen’s attack is boosted to the 900 range.

3 Likes


Had no noticeable change to dmg or to hit chance the higher it went.

Working as intended. That’s what many people told me many months ago when I submitted a video about layers of debuff beyond the first one being applied and the first debuff expiring.

No enemy in the game can reduce damage so much that Raika ends up with 0 damage. But because of how debuffs wearing off works, this is something that can happen.

As I wrote in the original post, it appears armor caps out at a certain amount of mitigation. It’s easy enough to confirm that on portals.

As for chance to hit, I haven’t tested that. If you have a data set I’d like to look at it.

I noticed when doing the rally event that the portals armor class was extremely high. Up to 400,000 armor class. Wow the monsters are generated from the same portals I could kill with one hit the portal itself was definitely tougher so there is some effect of having extremely high armor class but I think it only applies to the game and not our characters

None of my testing suggests you’re right, Michael. The monsters that spawn have normal armor values. You can reduce portal armor down below 1000 and see a boost in damage (takes a while; have to stack a few -75%s with -50%s back to back).

It’s also easy to see the impact of armor on incoming damage for player characters. Fight the same boss 20 times and bring armor boosting effects and change gear. Watch what happens when your armor is 400 below the boss’s attack rating vs when it’s equal vs when you’re 400 above.