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Battle Matchups

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I feel for the developers.

They have spent endless hours revamping and revising the event match-making algorithms. Finally they arrived at this awesome system which works precisely as intended. The algorithm and rigging combine to defraud players. The only exception being insiders who have rigged the event in their favor. Meanwhile, the developer is unscrupulously profiting while legitimate players continue to pay for resources, without knowledge the event is rigged against them.

This has continued for months and is abhorrently shameful.

The sentiment I feel for the developers is disdain.

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I’ve been meaning to address the use of the word “insider” to label players such as myself for a while now.

First, I think the label is misleading. I don’t have any special “inside” information. Everything I know about the game either derives from the game client, these forums, or knowledge from an external but relevant sphere (like MMOCCGs, mobile gaming, D&D lore, etc.)

Second, the elucidation of the underlying mechanisms that are not readily apparent occurs through the process of theory generation and hypothesis testing, which is a process that is taught in most educational systems. Most people are trained to perform this task. I happen to have a bit more experience applying this training, but anyone can reproduce the process.

Third, once an underlying mechanism is confirmed to my satisfaction, I publicize the information in what I have concluded to be the primary medium of dissemination, i.e. these forums. “Insider” implies a degree of exclusivity of information that just isn’t the case here.

If I don’t consider myself an “insider”, what would a better label be you ask? How about someone tries to understand how gaming mechanism work and then tries to min/max their resource allocation? Since this game is D&D themed and there’s a long tradition of character optimization in the genre, I think a more appropriate title would be Optimancer.

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retsamerol, I see there is either some confusion over my choice of words or the interpretation of my comments. Hopefully I can clarify with reference to your points.

Point 1 - Perhaps my use of the term ‘insider’ is misleading or misunderstood. I have never identified any player or forum poster directly as an insider. I use the term to describe players who have information that is not readily available to the masses. While I sense I am using the term correctly, perhaps I am wrong. I have been speaking English for years, but sometimes I am reminded I still make occasional errors when converting some concepts into English.

Point 2 - I understand your perspective on this topic. However, I disagree. I am confident few players can adequately interpret and correlate the available data in a manner suitable to establish the algorithms.
The breakdown you provide for these events is outstanding. As such, those of us inside the forums, who follow your guide have access to info not available to the average player.
The average player can easily observe event match-making is amiss, but I anticipate few are capable of discerning the mechanics.

Point 3 - We all appreciate your efforts in assisting other players. Your guides are invaluable. I am not critiquing your efforts. I often recommend your guides to guild members. Additionally I am not criticizing players who are manipulating the mechanics in their favor. They are using the tools that are available to their advantage.

Instead, as I noted above, my disdain is directed toward the developers for continuing to compound these failed algorithms, especially when they are aware of ongoing manipulation.

As we recall, early on the developers realized players were tanking to rig the ToM style events. Accordingly, the developers postponed these events and revised the algorithm. After a brief hiatus, ToM returned with revised match-making mechanics. However, the new mechanics were flawed. Instead of shelving ToM until a workable mechanic is found, the developers continue to tinker with a broken algorithm based upon unworkable mechanics. As such, some players continue to rig the event, which has the unfortunate side-effect of hampering the progress of unaware players. These unfortunate souls are being exploited by the system. With this in mind, I offer no apologies for my opinion and reiterate my sentiment that the Ludian abuse of players is abhorrently shameful.

“Insider” is a pejorative most commonly associated with the phrase “insider trading” where an individual trades securities on a public exchange using information that is both not public and important for the security’s near term value trajectory. This activity is considered criminal in most jurisdictions.

Insider can also apply to individuals with experience, expertise and connections within a certain field, who would have an understanding of the intricacies of that particular field based on these attributes. Almost always someone privy to information not readily available through typical research methodology. They may act as guides or consultants to those less familiar with the subject matter.

However, in the context in which you have used “insider” on the forums, I would say that it is closer in tone and meaning to “insider trading” than guide.

Here’s an alternative way to frame what you’re saying: Ludia’s team have set up events to act as traps for the unwary. Individuals who fumble blindly along will get caught in these traps, while more cautious and wary players devise ways to circumvent these traps. Unfortunately most players fall into these traps because they don’t know to look for guides.

I agree with your general understanding of what is happening.

I just think that the use of the word “Insider” is unnecessarily pejorative, and causes forum readers to lump wary players in the same group as crooks who do insider trading.

It should also acknowledge that they still partially fixed those ToM.

I can no longer do 30-0 win like I was able at first.

The only problem right now is that they don’t display the rating used for the matchmaking.
would be nice if that number was visible for your opponent between ( ) for exemple but you can’t see yours this way you can’t gimmicks your own but understand your opponent rating and why he is matched against you.

Also I feel it rough to make bot for 4000 such a leap from 3500 as if I want the reward for 4000 trophy for the season I want to climb and win but once I get that reward my ToM bot will be 3 level 20 and 1 level 19.

Interesting take Krom. I am in agreement with your thoughts.

I agree it is a mistake to display Battle Mode trophy counts during ToM event periods. Doing so makes the obscenity of the match-making algorithm painfully obvious. However, I suppose the consistent 1 or 2 round battles is also indicative, or the occasional pitting of high level heroes against level 8 and 9 opponents is perhaps further evidence the system is flawed.

I also agree it is has become virtually impossible to go undefeated in current ToM events. On a micro-level this may appear as evidence of a partial fix. However, event rigging now requires tanking within the event. Prior to the updates, the Battle Mode count was used for event match-making. Thus, event rigging could previously be done by tanking in regular Battle Mode. This allowed many players to tank outside of the event, thereby going undefeated in the event. At that time, rigging required players to drastically lower their Battle Mode count. This deterred many players such as myself from tanking. With this penalty removed there are almost no significant detriments to rigging, Unfortunately these changes have done little to fix the events when viewed from a macro perspective.

I am also in agreement the bots are insane. I have issues with how bots and PvE opponents are calculated in Battle Mode, ToM events and Challenges. Hero level should not factor in these calculations and the difficulty should not increase during events.

These ToM events should either be free or discontinued until the issues are resolved or converted to PvE. Many unaware players are spending hard currencies to purchase resources, which are being consumed by these traps. Ludia should desist from propagating such larceny.

Interesting discussion all.

@Orloch, @retsamerol is right that at least in the US, “insider” in this context will convey a tone of saying someone has an unfair or unethical advantage as opposed to an advantage gained by greater skill, luck, effort, experience, ability, etc.

Sure sounds like no one was intending offense on either side. Just wanted to note that I appreciate the thoughtful discussions players like yourselves have on these forums.

Interesting @CPXZ @retsamerol . Thanks for you comments.

Unfortunately some concepts often do not translate well linguistically, even when shared between language branches from the same tree.

Eingeweihte” is the concept I was using. We commonly translate this term to “Insider”, which is also the translation provided by Google Translate.

An online dictionary defines Eingeweihte as “Jemand, der über etwas informiert wurde, das nicht jeder weiß”, which Google translate directly converts to “someone who has been informed about something that not everyone knows.” As such, my use of the concept “Eingeweihte” was correct, and it likely would have translated well years ago. However, since ‘insider trading’ has become a common phrase in the US, it seems to fail in modern translation.

I will need to find a better term for future use.

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DON’T pay for resources. This is one of the few games where resources are abundant without spending.!

With the increased rate of 2-for-1 Legendary packs and legendaries for sale at 40k, I find my resources depleting faster than I’m accumulating them. The devs have almost made VIP access appealing to me again.

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What is the point of having a trophy level if you never get matched to an opponent near that level? Now one may argue that 200 points is within that range as it could still be in the same arena. But I think we all know that in the practical sense this is not the case. There is usually a significant difference in the hero’s gear levels.

Anti tanking efforts don’t make sense as there’s no way to excel. Also this doesn’t stop players from being matched with someone who is significantly stronger, something we all still see right now. I’m not even sure you could buy your way out of this vicious cycle as I’m guessing you’ll get matched with someone near your own power level! To top things off, not everyone wants a highly intensive battle every time they battle. Everyone needs a breather.

If I’m not going to be matched with someone near my trophy count, I don’t see why this system would even be implemented.

I have not played the new ToM event, but since it began Battle Mode has been a mess. I have faced the worst mismatches to date, pitted against both, top 20 players and absolute beginners.

This abuse of weaker players should have been corrected long ago. I have had enough of my game play being used to steal from weaker players. However, instead of fixing matchmaking, the problems have been compounded. The ongoing use of such match-ups is completely unfair to those weaker players who are foolishly buying resources to complete. Eventual mass charge back requests and class action will likely become unavoidable.

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Well we don’t see the actual health bar of your opponent. If he is matched against you look like someone who tanked his rating thinking he would cheat the system and the system brought him where he should be. But your screenshot hide to many information about your opponent

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@Krom. It is unfortunate the timing of this photo does not show more. Regardless, this is just the most recent example of many corrupt mismatches. Based on your comment I assume you have not been inundated with these matches. Perhaps it is just me, but based on past player comments, I am assuming everyone is experiencing similar matchmaking fiascos.

What I assume is that player is doing tom since you said you are not and the matchmaking used isn’t his current trophy count but some formula from previous season score.

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It’s almost impossible for higher players to tank that far. Believe me I tried it out of boredom.

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Ouch, I personally haven’t seen any mismatches anywhere near that bad. On it’s face, assuming there isn’t unprecedented tanking going on, that is wholly unfair. But I also assume that you could sense from the flow of the battle whether someone roughly equivalent to you tanked that far down just by how easy or not the battle went.