Ludia Forums

Brawls why are they so unfair?

2019-07-27T12:00:00Z

I took a while to find the right mix with my brawl dragons. Mine for months now are a Stormcutter, Brute Boneknapper and a Defender Thunderdrum.

I am still getting my dragons up to about level 15-16, but the thing that is getting me is the other side can have 6 turns to my dragons 2 or 3 and get the 3 strength time after time. I don’t mind losing if things are at least fair.

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I have seen the change in the last couple of updates that make brawls harder. As a current champion 2 brawls are a way for me to pass time in my day. My stormcutter is a level 21 while my defender thunderdrum is still only a level 16.

What you have to keep in mind is that it’s USELESS to level up your dragons, especially avoid leveling some up higher than the others. Keep them all at the same level, this way you’ll have more choice and be able to switch any dragon for whatever you want to try.

The enemy dragons’ strength is based on your best three - not the three you are using. So let’s say your best three are levels 18-16-15, then the enemies will, at a minimum, have a total of 49 levels - which is why you’ll have a very hard time winning if you use any other, lower level dragon from your stable; you’re essentially handicapping yourself. The enemy’s strength also increases the more you win, until it resets after a certain time (at least once a day).

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Also, the more you win, the more brawls get increasingly harder until they are basically rigged to make you lose. In recent versions I noticed the opponent level gets lower when brawling less often.

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There is a lot of strategy involved with selecting which dragons to use for brawl. I like to pick dragons that have multiple effects when I use action points, such as attack and also increasing my attack strength, or also preventing another dragon from using action points, or also reducing an opponents defenses, or also healing my dragons. I also think about how many action points a dragon has to earn before using action points.

I also think about which opponents to eliminate first. For instance, opponents with really high attack strength need to be eliminated quickly or they will take out all of your dragons. Sometimes you have to compromise and go after the opponent with the second highest attack points because they have less health points than the dragon with the highest attack strength. That way you eliminate at least one opponent sooner, hopefully without any of your dragons being eliminated, and therefore you are earning action points faster. For that reason, I like to have at least one dragon that can heal other dragons because that keeps me in the brawl for longer.

I have noticed that the games tends to increase the strength of your opponents over time until you eventually can’t win. I’m not a fan of a no win situation, but fortunately I have found it is possible to win a clearance majority of brawls if I apply a bit of strategy. Also after a loss, they tend to reduce the strength of your opponents for a while.

The thing I dislike about brawls is the speed concept they introduced a while back. The speed concept enables some dragons to cut in line or jump the queue, thereby taking a turn sooner. I think they were trying to introduce some randomness to brawls so that people couldn’t win every time. It just seems unfair for dragons to be able to cut in line, even if it is my dragons that are the ones cutting in line. So personally I wish they would do away with that concept.

Fortunately, by applying a bit of strategy, and leveling up some carefully selected dragons, it is possible to win most, but not necessarily all brawls. And fortunately you can apply the same strategies to gauntlets. Though I will mention that because gauntlets often have multiple rounds, it is even more advantageous to have at least one dragon who can heal other dragons. I hope that helps.

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Rumor Control time…

First… yes, there is a “difficulty number” associated with brawls. I don’t know exactly how it works, but roughly, it determines the combined level of the dragons you will face. It starts equal to your best dragons (and then cheats, because it takes no cognizance of dragon class; if your best is three rookies at 15, then you can and will end up facing champions and heroics at 15, never mind that your own champions are almost certainly several levels behind your highest). For every victory, it goes up. For every loss, it goes down, but it only goes down to its initial value, never lower. Thus, if you lose every other fight, you will always get a “fair” match-up. This “difficulty number” also resets after a while, so e.g. if you only ever fight one brawl a day, you can have an unlimited number of “fair” fights in a row.

Second, turns are based on “speed”. Back when fights were more real-time, you could watch dragons’ “turn meters” recharge. Now they are invisible… but I believe the turns are still based on the same system. Basically, each dragons’ turn occurs on some tick of a notional clock, after which that dragon can’t act again until so many ticks have passed. The number of ticks depends on the dragon’s level, and especially its class. What can happen is, for example, your dragon that acts every 50 ticks faces off against a dragon that can act every 30 ticks. Now, if both dragons get their first turn at 0, the turns will go: you (0), opponent (0), opponent (30), you (50), opponent (60), opponent (90), you (100), opponent (120), …and so on. This is especially noticeable with “swift” (blue) dragons. The opponent isn’t “cutting”; he just naturally is able to act more often… and it has always worked this way. (This is also how the speed-up and slow-down abilities work, by changing these values.)

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Why they dont tell us this VERY IMFORTANT PIECE OF INFO!?

Incorrect statements contained on this thread. While I am not going to “call” anyone out( No point in “shaming” someone.)
Unless it’s a statement made by someone that works for Ludia then my advice is to be careful with what you state as fact vs. opinion.

How about, instead of writing “XYZ is writing rubbish…” you write “In my opinion it works like this…” so that we all understand what you are talking about and there is an actual contribution ? We may disagree on your point of view but that does not make it wrong.

Your restraint is admirable, though I have trouble imagining who else you could be talking about.

That said, I wouldn’t call my previous post “opinion”. Yes, it’s true I do not have the access to the game’s source code to back up my information, but what I posted is nevertheless based on observations, including how turn-selection worked when it used to be semi-real-time, as well as ways in which similar systems are typically implemented.

If you have evidence to back up why you think I am wrong, then show that. That would be constructive. As it stands, your reply… isn’t.

For the record, I was attempting to explain why/how the "unpredictable"¹ turn order isn’t just the computer being a cheating <your favorite noun here>. I thought this explanation would be helpful, but apparently you don’t agree.

(¹ I believe it is somewhat predictable… to a computer. Most of us humans won’t be able to keep track of all the numbers in our heads needed to make reasonable predictions, on top of which there is a random factor that goes into when each dragon gets its first turn that complicates things, as well as special abilities that speed up or slow down dragons.)

Whoa… I posted a comment stating that there were “Incorrect Statements” contained on this thread.
@ozled- I’m sorry, I genuinely don’t have time to comment. ( I’d like to think that I’d simply be able to point out the Oxymoronic/Paradoxical problem with your “opinions” , but it’s my opinion that it would be impossible…)
@robocat3- I didn’t single anyone out and if you’re suggesting that I was referring to you then you’d be incorrect. ( I actually hadn’t read more than 1/2 of your 1st comment until I got your last message.)

I wrote that there were incorrect statements contained on this thread. Why? Because there are numerous statements contained in this thread that are FACTUALLY INCORRECT, I then proceeded to suggest my advice that unless you know whether or not it’s a fact, then “my advice”, 99.9% of the basis for making this statement was on behalf of those whom are inexperienced. It was a suggestion of being careful between stating facts vs. opinion.

I’m such a jerk for doing this!(LOL). If you think I’m defending Ludia then you’re mistaken. You can search other threads and make an observation about whether or not I think that they-Ludia (cheat,steal,rob,deceive,etc.- Insert any adjective that describes unethical and dishonest behavior)

Now that I’ve read your post, I would be willing to send a few data points that might be helpful to your last comment. The brawl system is inherently flawed, I’ve stated this on numerous occasions. If you would like me send you a message directly,I’d be more than willing to try to be helpful. I’m not interested in arguing with you. I have done a very extensive analysis of this game though…(I got ignored by CS support without a single response for 9+ months- this won’t get “approved” if I share more details.
Additionally, there are at least 20+ variables that dictate the “brawl system” - which as it stands- sucks. (I’ve fought in roughly 7,000 brawls.)

I guess I am confused then. Apologies if I was overly touchy.

However, that leaves it ambiguous just what you are claiming is definitely wrong information. I hope you can follow up with that at some point. (Note: in case it isn’t obvious, I believe the part about the computer “skipping turns” is… not exactly wrong, but was presented in a way that was certainly misunderstood. Turn order is indeed not strictly round-robin, but the way it actually works is, as I’ve noted, more nuanced than just “the computer cheats”.)

To be clear, I am also not arguing that Brawl is perfect. In fact, I still think that brawl is the worst thing ever to happen to RoB (although to be fair, I think gauntlets are okay when they don’t make them ludicrously hard).

If you want to PM me, I’d certainly be curious :slight_smile:. BTW I have also been censored for what I would deem “highly dubious” reasons…

I’d also suggest, if you haven’t already, trying to get your information on the wiki, which is not (at least, not directly) controlled by Ludia and is possibly less prone to being censored.


This can’t be fair. No, these are not all of my strongest dragons - I had one other dragon at level 16 I could have used but this is my favourite combo. Curious if anyone else has had similar matchup?

Never that bad… how many fights did you win in a row? If you have won many brawls in a row, with each prior one building toward this, then I’d say it’s plausible… otherwise it’s probably a bug.

(BTW, can players even get past level 20, or is that yet another way in which the computer cheats?)

I don’t think I’ve ever reached a handicap of 16 levels, but I have had 14-15 - and yes, sometimes I even win, once in a blue moon. :slight_smile:

Usually the point of no winning is a handicap of about 12 levels, after which loss the enemies reset to around my levels.

See, this comment brings absolutely nothing to the discussion, as Robocat and Ozled have already mentioned.

In the last few weeks, the order in which my dragons fight has also changed so my cloudjumper gets destroyed before I can get to use my action points. It makes it much harder to win. It’s time for me to stop playing the brawls as it’s just not fun any more. Good luck to those who still participate in the brawls.

I’m also not a fan of the speed concept that sometimes changes up the order of play when brawling. I thought it was implemented when they started displaying the speed characteristic in the brawl stats, but based on comments above it seems to have been a feature of the game for longer than that. It sounds like it is intended to just accelerate turns for some dragons, but when I’m brawling it just feels like some dragons arbitrarily get to cut in line. I don’t even like it when my dragons cut in line, it just feels unfair even if it is giving me an advantage. I’ve found that sometimes if I change up the dragons I’m using, or if I change the order of the dragons I’m using, that sometimes helps with the situation you are describing. Maybe it resets some statistic or something, I don’t know, but hopefully that helps.

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