Ludia Forums

Broken Systems and Shoddy Compensation Math

This is the core of the issue so many people are frustrated about. In the old system, getting a team (or even just one stat) completely maxed was ridiculous, not an expectation, and not something that 99.9% of the playerbase would EVER achieve. Taking almost 10 years of F2P farming or maybe half/a third of that with dropping tens of thousands of $$ to purchase every boost sale. T9 and T10 were 512 and 1024 cost respectively, to take you from 46% boost up to 50%. That means a whopping 75% of that TOTAL 2046 number for cost to “max boosts” was tied up in the last 4% of boost strength, that no one in their right mind would pay unless they were infinitely rich or had everything else boosted up already (which would take having 4k of each boost to spend on the team already).

Under the new system, that 75% of the total cost that most ever player was never even going to see, let alone have to actually pay it, was spread out among all other boosts. If the new system were instead designed around the old T8 that was the reasonable “endgame” expectation for boost levels, it would scale to 46% for 500 point cost, or 25 points per 2.3% boost, which I will explain why I think approximately that is a reasonable progression rate farther down. Instead, because of the inclusion of a borderline unreachable T9/T10 max boosted dino in the old system, scaling to 50% boosts at 2000 boost point cost means we’re all stuck paying that extra 75 boost points for only 0.2% more boost per tier, which I don’t think anyone in the old boost system would have done willingly. Essentially making it at best about 4x more expensive (or ridiculously more up to 20x more expensive for the 30% boost that was t5, now t12, or 33x more expensive for 5% t2 old, t2 new) to get anywhere sub-T19. The only time this new system is even close to being cheaper is when you’d have multiple dinos boosted old t10/new t20, with that one T10 stat being the only thing boosted on that dino, add just a couple of tiers to offstats on one or two of those dinos, and you’re now paying even more in the new system than the old despite 2000<2048.

And even now with the cap (cap is good, forces meaningful decisions), no dino is going to be able to reach T20 on all 3 stats, or even 2. At most they’d reach T20 on one and T10 elsewhere. Compare that to old costs of 2048 for T10 and 62 for a T5 (50% and 30%). That’s a worst case scenario total cost of 2,110 boost points under the old system to reach the same power cap as the new system, spread that equally among all 3 stats that a player could boost and its an average of 703 per stat, also known as T8. At MOST that is the number that it should be considered to take to max out a stat. But one old T8 and T5 is still 46+30=76% net boost, which I can concede as equivalent to the 75% current cap (2.5%x30 levels). So under the old system, if it had the new power cap, it would cost 510+62=572 old boost points to max out one creature at new T18/T12 split. And THAT is the actual number the new change should have been designed around to keep things equivalent.

Being generous, t8 is the highest that most anyone would expect to be boosting too, a 46% increase in dino’s stats for 510 boost points. At that rate of exchange, spread out over a flat scaling 20 tiers at 2.5% each, it would cost about 11 points per % to reach 46% at t18, for a total of about 550 boost points to reach 50% at T20. Let’s even round that up to 600 point cost for T20, and make each boost tier (2.5% gain) cost a flat 30. That’s a reasonable expectation for the new system to be paced at, to have roughly the same rate of gain at the highest reasonable tiers, while even still managing to be significantly behind the lower tier’s old growth rate (62 for 30% old compared to 360 for 30% new). Staying behind it all the way up to that last bit of 45/47.5/50% level (would cost 540/570/600 total points to reach that level, again compared to the old 510 points to reach 46%). That would still be about 1 set of new stat tiers for 1 dino per week, 2.5%/2.5%/2, plus 1 extra for whatever the strike event was.

That’s still taking a total of 7200 stat points to max out a team of level 30’s with the cap of 30 boosts (so again, only 1 stat even able to reach T20), for about a year’s worth of farming assuming all the dinos are kept the same and no tier refunds had to be used to change teams due to balance nerfs. And after everything on your main team is capped after that first year+ of farming, the more stats you can gain give you a buffer towards building up a team of “backline” boosted dinos that you can swap into the main team from time to time. Or let you have extra stats available to test out new build setups for an already boosted dino, as it would take a total of 450 points, about 1 month of farming every daily+strikes, to refund a 30 capped dino and reapply those 900 total boosts elsewhere. At 900 points/2 months to bring new level 30 dino up to boost cap level for your backline, or main team if it’s a newly released dino you want to use. Using this system, to max out ALL of the current “meta relevant”, of just Apex Mid through Tyrant tier, of 40+ dinos would take 40*900=36,000+ boosts, with new good legendaries and uniques being released faster than you can farm for each 900 boosts to max them. So running out of things to invest in as F2P won’t be a problem. And the whales can still buy enough stat boosts to show off maxing out every unique dino in their collection, then legendaries, and/or will want to build up a stock of boosts before content patches to instantly cap any new releases and start using them at team strength on day 1, or constantly re-allocate their dino’s stat allocations to try new things or match fotm patch note buffs. They’re whales, it’s what they do. Overall that makes for a much more appropriate progression pacing for everyone.

And if we wanted to make this proposed system incentivize spreading out boosts in a balanced way, without hurting the min/maxing capabilities of builds, have the cost start at 20 and go up by +1 for each tier. So it will still cost a net total of ~600 to max out one stat, and for any given boost distribution the net cap would still result in the same total stat gain for that distribution. But it would become slightly cheaper to create an even spread of boosts for your dino(s) than it would be to dump into one. You wouldn’t be ultimately any stronger for doing so, but you would be able to get to that point just a little bit quicker. ~750 points to max balanced 25%/25%/20 level 30, vs ~850 points to max a 50%/25%/0 distributed level 30. With the balanced build incentive being more significant at lower levels where you’re likely capped and an extreme stat skewing is more unbalanced, comparing tiers 5/5/5 @330 cost to 15/0/0 @405 cost, or you could have 6/6/6 at that same 405 cost. (again, all compared to 246 point cost in the old system to make a 5/5/6, 30%/30%/26 boosted dino that could be done at any level. Still a significant net decrease in overall boost power for a given cost)

—And because players don’t like numbers getting smaller for some reason, a way to reach approximately these same effective values at the now boost costs = 100 would be to multiply all sources of boost generation by about x3-x4. Multiply the new total stat points for players by another x2.5 (2.5x1.5=x3.75 from where we first started). And change the cost scaling suggestion to 60 base + 4 per tier, or 70 +3 per tier, or 80 +2, or anywhere around there as a tuning knob to adjust how heavily you want to incentivize balanced builds being slightly cheaper/more efficient to create.

But Aplier, that’s less than 1/3rd the cost to max out a dino! You’re right, because the last two tiers had almost no effect on gameplay (1.5/1.46=1.0274, or a little over half a creature’s level worth of stats for paying out an extra 3x the cost it took to even reach that point) and only existed to massively artificially inflate the time it takes to reach “max” boosts. With costs the way they are now, to max out a level 21(!) team, getting 12/day from daily incs (4 of each) at the 4k arena ranking and 25/week from strike battles (a solid expectation for players with that level team), would cost 21x100x8=16,800 boost points. That’s 154 weeks at that pace, or about 3 years, to max out that team on boosts. That’s pretty much the same rate as if the player had decided to dump their boosts into getting one old T10/50% boost (2046 cost compared to 2000) in just ONE stat for each dino on their team. Or, you know… still longer than if they had decided to spread out for T8/46% boost for EVERY stat on EVERY dino on their team (1530 cost compared to 2000).

To which you may still be like yeah, 3 years to max out a team with boosts makes sense, it’s a big goal and should require a lot of effort. Except that’s for level 21’s. Staying at level 21 for 3 years. With “MAX BOOSTS” averaging 17.5%/17.5%/14 across the board. You wanna know what that used to take in the old system? We’ll even be generous and round everything up. T4/T4/T5 rank. 30/30/62 cost. 976 boost points. For a full team. Not 16,800. And at a not even significantly slower rate of earning. About 9 weeks worth of farming everything to reach that point. And still with significant room to grow, not being capped there. 2 months (old) vs. 3 years (new). To reach the same level of power that is only a little more than 3 levels worth of stats and makes up the cap for those creatures.

THAT is why we are up in arms. THAT is why this system is outrageous. THAT is why designing a new system around 75% of net cost that gave only 4% more boost is a horrendously poor design decision. THAT is why prioritizing pushing players towards the store as the only reasonable source of progression, when you had the opportunity to make a functional and engaging system instead, absolutely disgusts us. THAT is why taking what was 30%/30%/18 worth of boosts for every dino on the team (62 cost x 8 dinos=496, ~500 per stat), representing months of work, and turning it into just shy of being able to afford even T1 across the whole team for 2.5%/2.5%/2 (62x1.5=93, x8=744, ~750), using YOUR chosen example numbers, was the absolute shoddiest “compensation” math ever.

This was the biggest and perhaps most poorly thought out degradation to gameplay experience you could have given us since even deciding to introduce the boost system (which as a general mechanic I actually happen to enjoy and support the customization it offers, so long as it is presented properly.)


Adding to this as wife and I agree this was a slap in the face!

The new system is awful, boosts are awful, might as well take that trash out of game.

Y’all introduce a stupid mechanic, and over hype it, pitching it as a stat boost that is achievable and efficient. Then y’all nerf it so hard its useless and almost completely irrelevant.

You want to know why people are up in arms. Cause some people like me would buy boosts in shop whenever possible thinking they were actually worth something. Spent real money on a certain product only to have it completely changed.

You listen to the players though, right? The free to play players. I spend another dime on this game. Ludia might take away your DNA boosts etc.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. Ludia u took money i spent and made it worth 75% less and on top of that made it so the game is an rng nightmare again

The boost was never a good idea to start with.

And after things got stabilized, meaning that people gain enough boosts item to “flat out” (never mind T8 and beyond), they have to devise a new reason for people to continue paying.

That’s cheap, and I am tired of this.

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Thanks for the free bumps? I guess? …

I didn’t like boosts either and honestly I think they should be removed. I will admit I invested heavily in boosts because … well the option was available to me and for the price and potency of boosts I thought it was worth it. Now boosts are about worthless. 100 for all levels and less bonus then before. So not only do we not get to boost our dinosaurs to be as strong as before we have to pick and choose which ones to boost. Boosts are a joke. I dont say this often but I really wish misfortune to Ludia as a company. They deserve any misfortune heading their way for what they did to customers. I won’t pay for anything else from them.

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Hence why the main point if this post is that boost costs should be reduced to ~30 per tier (or all boost generation increased by ~x3.5 which is functionally the same). Because 100 per tier is complete BS of how slow it is for progression at the current rates, and not at all realistic to what the old rate of progression was considering that T9/T10 boost tiers were basically nonsensical. Any real progression stopped at T8 and that’s the scaling they should have used to base the new numbers on, not t9+T10 where paying 4x as much for 4% more stats.was something that basically no one in their right mind would ever do.

But with this new system we now have no choice to pay that 4x the cost for 4% more benefit, spread out over all of the boost tiers (so +75 more cost cost for each tier at a gain of only +0.2% boost per tier, compared to if they had scaled it to old T8 and we had 20 tiers that went up to 46% at 500 total cost)

This. So much this. I would like to upvote this into oblivion.
I welcome every other change from Ludia except for the price per tier.

I get complaining if you’ve spent money on boosts. I don’t get how anyone thinks they worked for them.

battling daily for dbis, 25 per week from strikes and endless tapjoy games for cash to buy some… theres some work involved.