Class Balancing (Fierce Attribute Suggestion)

I had this idea about a year and a half ago but I think it’s more applicable now more than ever.

As we all know, since 2.0, the resilient creatures have reigned supreme. The main reasons for this being that they are oppressive to the creatures that they counter, cunning (as it should be). And then the creatures that are supposed to counter them, fierce, are simply lackluster. This imbalance in the fierce department has been addressed by many in the community, especially here on the forums.

As of now, fierce creatures rely on their armor piercing and defense shattering. These are the main traits that define them.

Armor and shields are an integral part of resilient creatures. Fierce munch right through those, while cunning and other resilient struggle. And then we have cunning creatures who have their dodge, which works well against fierce and other cunning, but gets torn down by resilient.

This is all good. But notice who is missing a “damage mitigation technique/skill/attribute”? Fierce.

This is my proposition, give fierce an ability to lower resilient attack power, but be countered by cunning.

I would do this by adding a couple of things I call: “intimidation” and “fear”.

To explain these as simply as possible, intimidation would work just as armor works with resilient creatures. Intimidation would block resilient damage but is bypassed by cunning techniques. It would be a base stat that the creature inherently has and cannot be lowered. However, it would be ignored by cunning or “fearless” attacks. And just as resilient creatures can pull up a shield, fierce creatures could increase their intimidation, which would further negate resilient/un-aligned/fierce damage. I also like the idea of inflicting a status of “fear” onto the foe, although I’m not totally decided what the status would do.

On the other side, fearless attacks would pierce intimidation and as such, do full damage, just as a fierce strike does against an armored foe. As luck has it, we already have a cunning-type fearless attack, Fearless Flap! (Although, I personally don’t think that all fearless attacks should cleanse, distract, dodge and speed up).

(Side note, for the sake of balance, I would think it be wise to give cunning a similar attribute to armor and intimidation. Perhaps Nimbleness? I would say that it could be pierced by precise but it would mitigate damage from rending attacks and fierce attacks.) It would be like evasion but always active and always dodging.

Anyways, thanks for reading this far. Let me know if you like the concept!

TLDR: add an armor stat but specifically for fierce creatures

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Very cool idea. They could easily tack a “fearless” trait onto the basic cunning attacks, in addition to making a whole suite of fearless attacks. Maybe they could even replace “precise” cunning attacks with fearless ones (like precise pounce to fearless pounce), since it’s kind of bad for the game if cunnings excel at bypassing dodge (it would be like if resilients all had shield break). Besides, the cunning class has very few abilities to call their own, so they could use something else. And fierce could use more variety, too. The one thing is that it’s hard to single out just resilient attacks, so it would have to be more like armor, where it blocks damage from every attack besides armor piercing ones. And different dinos could have different base intimidation levels.

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I like this idea too. It would have to interact with dodge in a new way though. Like most cunning dinos would have a ___% chance to dodge ____% of damage, and dodge moves can increase either the dodge chance or amount of damage dodged.

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Yes, so I imagine cunning, “fearless” and definite (I guess) will all bypass “intimidation”.

I like this because right now to me, precise feels out of place on cunning creatures, especially pure cunning. I’m thinking of Spyx in particular. It’s odd to me that we have pure cunning creatures with abilities to counter other cunning creatures. Or maybe I just want them to categorize Spyx as Cunning Resilient haha.

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This is a good point. So both “nimbleness” and dodge should be ignored by any ability with precise. As for how “nimbleness” should interact with dodge abilities… I’m not sure. I think there is room to get a little creative there. That said, I do like your idea of it interacting with either dodge % chance or damage % dodged in some way! Exactly how though? Again, idk.

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It’s definitely an interesting idea. I don’t think it’s necessary, but it could still work.

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Maybe like "Procerathomimus has X nimbleness, so it has a 30% chance to dodge 50% of damage. If it uses evasive stance, it gets a 70% chance to dodge 50% of damage, or 30% chance to dodge 80% of damage, or 70% chance to dodge 60% of damage or something. It would basically be like armor and shields, where armor reduces your opponents damage on every non-armor piercing attack, and you can put up a shield to block additional damage for a given number of turns. So your innate nimbleness allows you to dodge a given number of damage (or has a chance to dodge), but you can also activate a dodge to chance of/augment the amount of damage reduced.

This would require a rework of the entire dodge system though. Like @Qaw said, that might not be necessary.

I like the idea and of fear i would like to see it incorporating into its weakest attack like resilient strike but instead of the cleans add the fear … like “terrorising strike” with the terror part bypassing the stats like you said but i would add 25% chance of a forced swap … which force the dino to swap out in “fear” for another dino which could not swap for at least one round . This could either work for you or against you … imobilised dinos would not be effected

Wow. I was thinking that there was an off balance but I never thought about it like that…
Man you got it.
I completely agree with you. some resilients are just overpowered, such as Sarcroxis and Doirajosaur. I’ve seen them take down fierce like there’s no tomorrow.
Anyway, ONE thing that’s standing in the way of this, is… the number of abilities. you might need more abilities for this to be successful.
But yes, agree with you 110%!

Please Ludia. please read this article, and redeem all those dinosaurs who have been wronged.
And give the dinosaurs more abilities. I feel like they could have more abilities.