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Creature Discussion

Any creature arguments yall have put it here. For the love of … Please continue the argument here. And have a healthy discussion. Because sometimes arguments are good. Dont forget to respect each other.

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Maxima is op…but it can bleed :joy:

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Just gon put these out there

Regarding the Gamepress Article, I was kinda iffy. I feel its HP should be dropped, keep the ATK/lower it to 1200, agree with the Fierce Strike, but getting rid of that DSR is very very unreasonable. Imo, the changes should be:

6000 HP —> 5300-5500 HP (No avg attack stat should ever get insane HP)
1300 ATK —> Keep it or lower it to just 1200
Speed and Armour the same
Crit lowered to 20%

Change basic attack to something else that dont counter Dodgers. It already counters a lot as it is
Instant Invincibility tweaked to only block one attack
Keep the rest of the moveset

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As much as I dislike maxima if y’all nerf it mortem raids will be impossible unless ludia makes something to take it’s place like Thor hint hint

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Ya but 1.2k with two rampages is to much unless you mean it gets impact back

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Our alternative something with a greater percentage distraction and bleed.

Cough cough spxs

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Group Decel Impact could suffice. But imo, GDR is much better, besides it has a 2-turn cooldown anyway. Maybe if DSR gets rid of the Delay, and GDR gets a delay…? (Not liking the idea of DSR without a delay tho…)

Or split raid stats from arena stats and/or attacks.

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Like separate movesets for both Arena/Raids.

I was hoping from the first announcement pre 2.0 that Ludia wouldn’t be so foolish as to make raid stuff bleed into arena. Was disappointed when they made 90% of critters useless in arena, and out of those, half of them are useless in both raids AND arena.

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Okay, looks like I missed out on a lot :joy:

Firstly, @NewNewbie, your idea that the kits/strength of the components matter more than anything else is still just your opinion, you don’t get to go stating it as a fact. Ludia’s actual balancing logic is still a mystery to us, so it’s a bit of a grey area.

And that’s where my next point comes in. @mukumuku, Procerathomimus was said to deserve a nerf because of two main reasons:

  1. It’s an Epic non-superhybrid, meaning it’s easy to create (especially since it’s been in like every other event for a long time). This means you have a creature on par with Uniques being unlocked by players who have a team level of around 11.

  2. It lacked same-rarity counters in skill tournaments. The only relevant creature that came close was Brontolasmus, and it was nerfed recently. Indominus G2 had practically a coin-flip matchup against it, and had the obvious problem of being overpowered itself.

That said, no reasonable person ever said that Procerathomimus needed the nerf that it got (in my opinion anyway). Just because we asked for a nerf doesn’t mean we are responsible for or condone what Ludia did to it.

Anyway, I think same-rarity counters are the best way of balancing a creature, even if you don’t care about exclusivity or rarity, and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one.

Let’s take a look at Indo G2. It had the same problem of being available to team-level-16 players and being as strong as Uniques. The counters available to these players were Suchotator, Procerathomimus (if you didn’t care about its future hybrid), Ardontosaurus and Keratoporcus, which seems like a pretty good number, but if you haven’t noticed, only 2 of those are from the same rarity.

If you move to Legendary Skill tournaments, Keratoporcus wasn’t in the top 8 creatures, because DoT wasn’t relevant and Definite Rampage was nerfed, leaving Ardontosaurus as the only viable counter. That simply isn’t enough.

Plus Indoraptor G2 had another thing going for it, the main (and pretty much only) thing people wanted to change: it’s sweeping-potential. That 2-turn speedup made revenge-killing all but impossible, even Phorusaura had a hard time. If it could be revenge-killed by relevant speedsters people would have had a much easier time with it.

Anyway, now moving to Thylacotator. It’s an Epic superhybrid, so it gets a little bit more wiggle-room than Procerathomimus. I haven’t bothered to calculate it’s matchups against the other Epic hybrids, so we’ll just have to wait and see whether it has enough counters or not. Marsupial Lion being arena exclusive helps it’s case too.

It does seem that it has a bunch of Epic counters though. Sarcorixis, Gorgosuchus, Indominus rex G2, then there’s Postimetrodon too.
It certainly has more than Procerathomimus ever did.

But I do agree that it’s matchups against the top creatures are extremely impressive for an Epic. It beats Tryko, Dio, Maxima, Gemini, maybe even Mammolania.

In fact, I was also of the opinion that it might be a bit overpowered, simply because it’s leagues better than any other bleeder (Pterovexus is debatable). But I think that’s just because all the bleeders we have are lacklustre. If all the top bleeders could beat the same creatures that Thylacotator does, would you still say that it’s overpowered?

I’m taking about Spinotasuchus, Spinoconstrictor, Stigydaryx and Pterovexus, which all arguably deserve to be better than Thyla. If you’re wondering how it would even be possible to get those bleeders to be better than Thyla without making them overpowered, just ask, because I do have the answer.

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Its an opinion with evidence. While Ludia is still yet to tell us how they form a creature’s stats/movesets, its quite common sense. Its a hybrid made by 2 components, one expects that the stats/moveset given is based on said components. I mean currently, thats what you would find in probably 85-95% of all hybrids, of course with a few outliers.

There’s more than a few outliers. Basically any hybrid with a little bit of creativity going behind its design is an outlier. Many creatures have moves that are a combination of moves that their ingredients do, while others get stronger versions, with seemingly no logic behind the changes other than artistic license.

While a hybrid’s abilities are obviously based on those of its parents, you can have the same basic abilities and stats and still make a stronger or weaker creature. Take Trykosaurus and it’s new counter-attack. Sure, it’s a combination of what it’s parents have, yet so was the original version, then why is the current version so much stronger?

Most of the top creatures are outliers. Diorajasaur, Trykosaurus, Geminititan, Ardentismaxima, Quetzorion, Erlikospyx, Magnapyritor, also Thylacotator, Suchotator, Purutaurus, Procerathomimus, Monomimus, Alloraptor, etc.

Another example is Ardontosaurus. It’s based on its ingredients just like it used to be, and it’s ingredients haven’t changed significantly, yet it’s so much more powerful now.

Mammolania not really…since it can hit hard turn one then just cleanse bleed and regen; turn 3 just go PFS, and KO rampage

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Yeah, it’s just that I’ve beaten Mammolania with my Thylacotator, but the opponent must have forgotten to use Dig-In.

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Ya lol we have those big brain moments sometimes

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Completely agree. I second all of this.
One thing I’ll say about Thyla is that, as a bleeder/tank buster, maybe It shouldn’t have the ability to slow speedsters with superiority strike. It should focus on countering tanks and shouldn’t have this advantage against speedsters and distractors. I love Thyla but i think this single aspect could make It more versatile than It is considered balanced. I would trade superiority strike for rending strike, with that, It has the perfect tank busting kit but will be consistenly countered by any speedsters.
So, @NewNewbie and @mukumuku, as far as I’m concerned, there is nothing wrong with a lower rarity creature beating higher rarity ones as long as this creature has counters on it’s own rarity. As I’ve said above, the only thing that could be considered unbalanced on Thyla is it’s superiority strike, but even with that, It gets beaten by almost every unique speedster and has a decent number of counters on it’s rarity. As for myself, i never had a problem with proceras in the arena. Sure, sometimes i would face some pretty well boosted ones but they were most of the time not a hard challenge for the team i have. If It were only for my arena experience i would never ask for a nerf. But the issue with procera is that It had close to no counters in it’s rarity and It could often dominate some tournaments and the lower arena. And all i ever suggested were small nerfs like an HP nerf to 3000, damage to 1500 and maybe replacing evasive stance for evasive impact so It could be more offensive and less of a staller, that’s It. Despite not using procera i never advocated for the kind of nerf It recieved, that was absolute hammering. And i think many players like me and @Qaw didn’t want that, we just wanted to make It more balanced, but there’s always a vocal minority that doesn’t care If something isn’t usable anymore as long as It stops annoying them.
All in all, procera needed a small nerf but got destroyed. Thyla is strong and good at what it’s supposed to, but was never broken, has a good number of counters on it’s rarity and in the end game. For those reasons Thyla is a balanced creature and besides the superiority strike issue, It doesn’t need a nerf imo.

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It really just depends on how one views the components. It is true that sometimes a hybrid can be based off it components completely, or sometimes it can be stretch, but its still based. There are little outliers such Dio’s Counter-Attack, but more often than not, others do make sense. (i.e. Tryko’s C-A is based, its Resilient Impact can be a stretch tho since Kentro has it, which is very far from its lineage, but still works)

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Thank you finally. All I wanted to hear

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