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Cunnings buff

After the nerf of resilients could we have a buff for cunnings? Since most cunnings don’t have vulnerability resistance it’s kinda their new weakness

  • Yes cunnings need a buff
  • No cunnings are fine

0 voters

But Resilients are supposed to counter Cunnings.

5 Likes

The vulnerability is supposed to counter them, but since they already tend to have such low health resilients don’t really need to do more damage against cunnings. And given how strong vulnerability made some resilients, it’s not necessarily a nerf (though also not universally a buff) - just generally the wrong direction to go in the first place.

I do think cunnings could use a buff, mainly to health. Cunnings excel at speed, but there isn’t a huge difference in speed across the board. Plus decel exists, so cunnings could outspeed fierce who outspeed resilients who outspeed cunnings via decel (so it could make a balanced loop). In exchange for this minimal speed advantage, cunnings sacrifice a lot of health -probably too much. No one thinks twice about a 4500 or 4200 hp fierce or resilient, so why is it so rare to get cunnings in this health range? If cunnings had more survivability through bulk, suddenly deceleration wouldn’t be so bad from even the strongest resilients.

7 Likes

Somehow the 2 best cunning creatures have 4500 health!

4 Likes

Wow, what a coincidence… It’s almost like having more health helps cunnings survive better!

Plus one of them has the flock mechanic to make it even bulkier.

Sorry erlikospyx is only 4200 and gorgotrebax 4500. I said both had 4500.

Either rework the speed stat or give em something else to work with. Im fine with a damage buff to get at least some damage in before they slapped back to the bench.

So this conversation got me thinking: what actually is the biggest weakness of the cunning class? To determine this, I examined the relationships between individual stats and the Gamepress tier list ranking within the cunning, cunning-Fierce, and cunning-resilient classes. It should be noted that I used the 2.8 rankings and stats (since the 2.9 tier list isn’t out yet, and probably won’t be for a while).The stat in question (rarity, health, attack, and speed) are the independent variables on the X axis, and the tier is the dependent variable on the Y. Tiers ranged from 1 to 10, with 1 being Hatchling and 10 being Tyrant.

Each plot gave a trend line for the stat. For those who may be a bit less math savy: steeper trendlines (up or down) show stronger relationships between the variables (this is the same as the magnitude of the number before the X in the equation for the trendline). The R^2 value shows how well the trend line describes the data: the closer to 1.0 the R^2 is, the stronger the trend.

Without further ado, here’s what I found:

Rarity
Cunning_Rarity

Rarity showed the strongest positive trend of all the data, as I would hope it should. Essentially, as the rarity of the dino in question increases, so does it’s strength (as measured by tier placement). So the balance curve within the cunning classes is actually pretty reasonable; although this doesn’t mean it falls in line with the other classes (it may be a strong linear trend that happens to still be lower than the other classes).

Health
Cunning_Health

Here’s where things get interesting. Health was the strongest positive predictor of strength of any of the three main stats. The slope isn’t the strongest, but it is stronger than attack (see below), and the R^2 is the highest of the three stats (showing that this data shows the most consistent trend of the three). As Health increases, strength also increases. This means that the strongest cunnings are indeed usually the ones with the most health or survivability.

Attack
Cunning_Attack

On the other hand, attack showed almost no trend. The slope is pretty much 0, even lower than health. And the R^2 value is the smallest of the three stats. Basically, attack has no bearing on how strong a cunning will be. It is not a strong predictor of strength.

Speed
Cunning_Speed

In terms of slope, Speed actually had the most significant trend, with the highest slope. The thing that surprised me was that it was a negative trend: as a cunning’s speed increases, it’s overall strength actually generally decreases! This may be because Ludia puts too much weight on how much value the speed stat brings, so they skimp out on the other stats, making faster dinos weaker overall than their peers.

Summary
Overall, it seems that (at least as far as stats are concerned), faster cunnings tend to be lacking in something that makes them weaker. Based on the other graphs, this would appear to be the health stat. My recommendation to Ludia would be to buff health of cunnings, especially for the more fragile faster ones. Of course, as we learned in 2.9, no “universal” solution is truly one size fits all. Some cunnings (like the amphibians) may benefit instead from attack buffs, and some (like CompC) may need no buffs at all.

6 Likes

They just need to give resilients back their slowing effects rather than the vulnerability effect. Hadros lux is almost useless without it

1 Like

This made my brain hurt, but I think I understand what you meant

1 Like

Absolutely. Like with the resilient changes we just got, individual evaluation and individually tailored changes would always be preferable to a single universal change for the whole class. This is more to illuminate which stat generally makes the best cunnings better than the others: what’s that “x-factor”, and should weaker cunnings get more of it? In this case, it seems like the “x-factor” may be health, but a simple universal health buff will not be ideal in all cases. Ludia Ludia-ing things up is always something to be concerned about.

1 Like