Ludia Forums

Curious

I am curious what the benefit is to intentionally keeping your heroes at a low level.

I am still relatively new to the game but other than the gifts you get for increasing your levels and therefore you renown I haven’t seen anything else that is level dependent.

I have seen people say that levels don’t really matter because gear is more important. I believe that but you do get some extra stats from leveling even if it is just a small percentage.

The only thing I can think of is that your roster slots increase as you go up so maybe by keeping it low you limit your roster spots so you can keep more heroes from being chosen in pvp

Roster control is the main benefit. But it kind of requires never leveling characters you don’t intend to use in PvP.

AI strength is modified by stats, so better equipment and more levels can increase the difficulty of bots you face. Note that AI strength is primarily determined by arena level or league, which sets a default strength, and then secondarily modified by win/loss streaks. Equipment/character level seem to only have a minor, but detectable effect.

It isn’t so much that there’s a benefit to keeping levels low. It’s more that there isn’t great incentive to increase your characters past level 10 (which unlocks equipping all legendary items).

Lastly, there may be psychological advantages when an opponent sees a low level group without paying close attention to health bars. They may waste AOE attacks on characters with block, or move characters into melee range.

Main downside is locked access to some characters rooms during challenges and slightly lower statistics compared to similarly developed accounts.

Most players of games consider leveling up to have no downsides, as that’s usually the case with mobile games (especially games with hundreds or thousands of character levels). However, I’m not a fan of irreversible decisions, and leveling is one of those irreversible points. I have also played a handful of games where difficulty is scaled to level. (The Protection Racket from Nethack 3.4.3 springs to mind.)

That makes sense but then what is your goal for playing the game? From my, admittedly somewhat limited experience, most people who play these games are either trying to max their levels as fast as they can or they are trying to get every piece of gear and get it as high as they can.

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Unfortunately, even though I know better, I continue to level my heroes whenever the opportunity arises. This has been a mistake as the app adjusts your opponents (PvP bots and challenges monsters) accordingly. They become aggressively more difficult as your hero levels increase.

My average PvP hero level in my PvP roster is currently around level 15. However, since levelling a few heroes to level 16, I exclusively encounter level 18 and 20 bots (while others in my league face level 13 bots), and many of the challenge rooms have become incredibly difficult.

For example, I will use my current situation with the Heartcoil Deeps Challenge. For the past month or two my hero levels were in a sweet spot. I could finish this challenge unscathed. I always finished the challenge with no consideration for losing one of my heroes.

Since increasing a few heroes over the past week or so, I often cannot get all 3 dice. Attached is a photo of what I just faced in Room 8. I have encountered this configuration somewhere between 30 and 50 times. A few things to note:

  1. I’ve tried using lower level items to no avail.
  2. These foes do not fire randomly. They all shoot for the same hero until he/she is killed. 1st the Wizard, 2nd the Sorcerer, etc.
  3. On each attempt a number of these foes get initiative. This photo shows a rare case where my Wizard and Warlock both survive the initial onslaught
  4. The combined level of my heroes = 63, while my opponent = 123 (almost double my total)
  5. This difference is compounded because each monster heals nearly 100% at the start of its turn.
  6. I almost always lose at least one hero in the first round, usually 2.
  7. My success rate in this room is perhaps 20%, usually having only 1 or 2 heroes remaining.
  8. I often give up and only take 2 dice as opposed to 3 due to the difficulty and time required to complete this room.
  9. This is only Heartcoil Deeps. I now have no chance at all in Lightfinger Estate.

These factors combine to make it extremely difficult and time consuming to get all three dice in this lowly Challenge, I would have been better off to leave my heroes at level 15, or as @retsamerol suggests, it is best to leave them at level 10. Due to increasing my hero levels, I now often receive less dice than I did when my heroes were weaker and I can no longer compete in all of the Challenges.

Perhaps players with lower level heroes could post a few photos of what they face in room 8 to better exemplify this concern.

Unfortunately for the developer, this glitch directly dissuades players from spending money to improve their heroes. Ludia has been aware of the glitch, the Brand has spoke up about it, but Ludia remains defiantly unwilling to correct it.

I cannot more strongly recommend: Do not level your Heroes Above Level 10. Just Don’t Do It.

[I just noticed I get this anomaly in Room 7 also]

If it isn’t apparent yet, I like to explore the boundaries and edges of things. To understand how things work, and to devise strategies to best leverage what I’ve learned. Underlying mechanics are a puzzle to me and I like solving them.

PvE is mindless with pretty graphics, and for PvP, I’m usually the scrappy underdog. It’s fun.

I’ve enjoyed quite a few Paradox Interactive offerings that were sandbox games where the player devise their own goals, so I often ignore the goals that the other developers set out, to better explore the edges.

If anyone is interested in gameplay and theme that embodies the uncovering mechanics as puzzle, I highly recommend “Cultist Simulator”. It’s got crunch and fluff rolled up into one delectable minimalist artistic package.

I suspect that @Orloch is suffering from an idiosyncratic issue with his account. For some reason, he’s seeing stuff which should only be encountered for an account with much more renown/development. I don’t remember reading about anyone else with this issue.

If I were support, I’d create a new account, copy over all the character collected and character levels, gold, gems, trophies, and then unlink Orloch’s old account and replace it with a link to the fresh account. I’d also do a bit of investigation to see if there’s a hidden variable used for AI/challenge scaling, and do a code base review of things that modify that variable.

But I’m not support. Maybe @Jon or @Ned could get support to do something about it?

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Thanks Rets, your suggestions for support to look into my account are appreciated. Unfortunately, they refuse to hear or see my issue and I get no response. It would be interesting to know how many others have this issue. I am confident it happens to most client side users at my level. The developers just don’t see this as a problem.

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@Jon did appear in this video:

I suspect he has more sway than most of the forum moderators to get stuff to happen.

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Retsamerol has it almost entirely spot on. I’ve faced him in arena before and underestimated his team, still won because of good rng, but he gave me a run for the win even though i was 5 levels higher.

Another benefit is to analyze the actual bonus vs gold cost after level 10. You’ll see the stat gain for gold cost is actually worse than using that gold to level up gear you use. It’s entirely valid to stay at a certain level until you can’t level up your main gear.

There may also be an argument to only max common gear to level 13, rare gear to level 10 and epic gear to level 7.

This allows you to achieve the best ability while minimizing your stats, which as I have stated may influence the overall difficulty of the game.

I’ve noticed it does taper off after a point and caps out. My challenges have been getting easier due to gear catching up to my level. I think after a certain point you can just level up your characters because it wont get any harder. We seem to be facing the same level of difficult enemies even with the level difference

I was clearing Silverfrost Mines without losses. Then I leveled Tommus from 6 to 7. Using the same team I cleared Silverfrost 2 out of 5 times. Both times I cleared it, I suffered losses. This with a stronger team due to Tommus’s increased abilities and gear. I’m not leveling past 10. I don’t want to be punished for doing the logically correct thing. I imagine making it harder when we level up, is supposed to motivate spending. If that’s the case, we might as well just accept it, and work around it.

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It’s a good and bad thing

Good: It means that whichever is your top challenge doesn’t get absurdly easy
Bad: e.g. When I first got to the end of light finger I chose to complete it with the idea that I should be able to at least 2 star it regularly. I could initially but then levelled some characters and was back to 1 starring. Annoying that I sacrificed the free 3* squiddly Diddly challenges for what became 1* lightfinger.

The consolation: after a while it will get easier again Eg now can regularly 2 star lightfinger and sometimes 3 (at least until next time I level up too much :wink: