Ludia Forums

Dealing with the anti-tank tanks (buffing Thor and the other chompers)

Ardentismaxima, Brontolasmus, Woolly Mammoth, Geminititan, Ardontosaurus, Mammotherium, Mammolania. What do all these creatures have in common?
They are all anti-tank tanks, and they are all, with the exception of Brontolasmus and Ardontosaurus (although that’s somewhat debatable, since they can also wreck chompers) overpowered. Diplodocus is just over the edge, based on how it does in Epic tournaments.

They are extremely hard to take down, specifically because they stomp all over the chompers that are meant to counter them. Being tanks, they handle speedsters with ease, and being anti-tank tanks, they destroy tanks.

Now, a lot of forum-goers have suggested damage nerfs, but for creatures like Ardentismaxima, even nerfing it’s damage to a level below 1200 will still not ensure that chompers beat it, because of critical hits.
For Diplodocus however, a simple damage nerf from 1300 to 1200 will probably be enough.

But what about nerfing something other than attack damage, combined with a buff to chompers, one that allows them to handle these creatures better?
Let’s take a look at Trykosaurus, the one anti-tank tank that’s actually balanced (apart from Brontotherium, which is underpowered, and Elasmotherium). For one, it’s slower than the chompers that counter it, at 108 speed. Secondly, it has no speed control, so it can’t slow them down, or speed itself up.
This ensures that the chompers (Thor and Tenontorex) have the opportunity to pull off a rampage, which is essential.

So, here we go:

First, we have to identify the tanks and chompers applicable. The tanks have already been listed above. I think Monolorhino and Diplodocus can be exempted.
The chompers applicable are ones that might usually be matched up against them, so Epic chompers and higher.

Tyrannosaurus Rex, Allosaurus G2, Baryonyx, Tyrannolophosaur, Allosinosaurus, Thoradolosaur and Tenontorex. Trykosaurus can be exempted because, y’know, it’s Trykosaurus.

Now to list their speeds.
Brontolasmus is 115 (even though it’s parents are 107 and 108), and so is Woolly Mammoth, and their opponents are Baryonyx (124), Tyrannosaurus Rex (102) and Allosaurus G2 (105).

Mammotherium is 115, and Ardontosaurus is 108, while their opponents are Tyrannolophosaur (108) and Allosinosaurus (106).

Mammolania is 115, Geminititan is 110 and Ardentismaxima is 108, while their opponents are Thoradolosaur (109) and Tenontorex (109).

So let’s dish out some nerfs.
Brontolasmus: 115 => 101
Woolly Mammoth: 115 => 101
Mammotherium: 115 => 105
Ardontosaurus: 115 => 105
Ardentismaxima: 108 => 105
Geminititan: 108 => 106
Mammolania: 115 => 105

And that isn’t all. Mammotherium and Mammolania have Dig-In to increase their speed. Using Dig-In against a chomper would be nuts, so that isn’t a problem here.
But Deceleration is a problem. So here’s an idea.
Make all these chompers Immune to Deceleration.

So Tyrannosaurus Rex, Baryonyx, Allosaurus G2, Tyrannolophosaur, Allosinosaurus, Tenontorex and Thoradolosaur all get Immunity to Deceleration.

(Allosaurus G2 is overpowered, but an easy way to fix that is to replace Cleansing Strike with Prowl. Just read it’s in-game description and you get the idea. But that’s a topic for another time)

Now the only problem with that solution is Tenontorex. It has Superiority Strike, meaning Immunity to Deceleration allows it to always have the speed advantage against creatures like Diloracheirus.
So I’m changing Superiority Strike to Distraction-Cleansing Strike.
The loss of speed control is made up for by the ability to wreck some of the strongest creatures in the game.

Anyway, that’s it. I know the idea of giving Tenontorex Immunity to Deceleration has been suggested before, but this isn’t just Tenontorex.

So, what do you think?

  • Good idea
  • Bad idea
  • Neutral

0 voters

Edit: What do you think is wrong with the idea? Choose all the applicable options.

  • I’m against nerfs
  • Thor would become too difficult to handle
  • All/most of these Chompers would become too difficult to handle
  • The nerfs are too harsh
  • Other

0 voters

All these anti-tanks have been given too much mixed moves, partial immunities, moves that do many things at once. I think chompers should gain Immune to distraction. I know it sounds like a nutter’s idea, so I thought maybe partial immunity to distraction.
This means that the chomper could be distracted, but the Distraction would be reduced by 50%.
For instance, say a Yoshi has distracted you with DR, so instead of distraction being 50%, it would be 25%
And if it’s ID, then it would be 30%, not 90%.
It was just an idea, but let me know if this will work.

As for the Rhinos, Mammoth, their hybrids and such, they shouldn’t be immune to bleed. It’s absolute nonsense about them having thick hides, so they cannot be bled. This would bring bleeders like Spinotasuchus back.
The meta, as it is, is now immunities. So I think Immune to damage over time shouldn’t be a thing to the mammals, the turtles can have them, since it makes more sense in their case.

Yeah, just my opinion…
Edit: As for immune to deceleration, chompers like the Rex was extremely fast despite its size. It doesn’t make sense that a sauropod would be faster than an Allosaurus or a Rex. So a speed buff is in order instead of immunity for the latter.

2 Likes

I generally don’t like nerfs. Look for counters instead. I brought back old friend Tryostro for this case. I would love Indom2 as well, but far from team level.

3 Likes

I was thinking about the critical hits, and this is a suggestion I made long ago, they should bring back Impairing Strike(Yes, I remember its name now) which reduces the critical chance.( Or does it makes sure the creature does not land a critical hit the next turn?)

No! That is one of their big weaknesses.

There are so many speed boosted Thors in the arena. If they are faster than your whole team and you cannot do anything than speedup to be faster, that sucks.

My solution? Remove “immune to damage over time”. That way, you buff all bleeders. I would give some sort of a cleansing move to more tanks though like Gemini and Max.

10 Likes

Great idea. I was also thinking of giving chompers immunity to decel
Currently, anti-tank are for sure too strong. Unfortunately, Ludia won’t probably take your ideas into consideration. You know, they’re mostly exclusive. You want Lania and Gemini balanced?
The community probably also won’t like these ideas. For some reason, they fear nerfs. Even if something is clearly broken, no it can’t be nerfed. Why? Because someone uses it and it would hurt him. Horrible. It’s not like this broken dino makes other ones useless, thus hurting much more people.

2 Likes

You did read what I typed next right? I know people would protest, so I made it more viable.

That’s a boost problem. Nothing to do with balancing.

1 Like

Ardontosaurus and Ardentismaxima are Immune, so it wouldn’t affect them anyway.

Not everyone can afford to boost creatures to the point that they counter stuff like Gemini, Lania and Maxima.
Tryostronix doesn’t counter them on even grounds, and it only has a 50% chance against Lania.

Besides, once you start facing Geminis that are boosted as much as your creatures are, you won’t be able to counter them either. Then what can you do but hope for a nerf?

A lot of forum users view nerfs as a bad thing, but that’s a very small-minded way of looking at things.

Do you think the idea of partial distraction immunity will work? I know it’s not related when it comes to anti-tanks, but say if you’re distracted before that…

I think the only solution is to remove immunity to bleed for the mammals. As for Ardentis, it could actually be taken out by an equally levelled Alloraptor.

I don’t see the point. Distracting dinos are meant to beat chompers, generally speaking.

Some of the mammals deserve Immunity to DoT. Like Mammolania, it has turtle DNA. And Alloraptor was nerfed, so it can’t beat Maxima anymore, not without a crit.

2 Likes

The speed reductions to anti tanks seems like a step in the right direction. Handing out more passive immunities however… Not a fan of that.

Immunity to Deceleration on extremely slow creatures with no speed control probably won’t mess up the meta, so it’s nothing to worry about.

As long as boosts are a thing it’s something to consider. Having to consider a 149 speed Thor chewing through my entire team because I can’t slow it or outspeed it depending on my team selections on a regular basis is a terrifying thought.

Perhaps chompers could gain a sorta temporary buff that activates when facing anti tanks? Like they deal increased damage and take less damage?

1 Like

What about a 148 speed Maxima? Or Gemini? What about a 150 speed Tryostronix?
I don’t think boosts need consideration here.
Thors with 149 speed have to sacrifice damage and health. You can always use Cloak and DoT to deal with them.

1 Like

All those creatures you mentioned lack enough damage and crit chance on turn 1 to be a threat to creatures that can outspeed them. Thor can do that even without boosts.

Honestly not sure how chompers are supposed to deal with these things. My best suggestion would be their speed control moves having a shorter time of effect and higher cool down and speed stat reductions.

Proposed nerfs are really bad. Hybrids should get speed from one of its parents (Therium and Lania can’t have same spreed as Apato).

Any chomper with IC shouldn’t be immune to deceleration.

Tenontorex needs health buff. Has same health as Tryko that has 30% armor.

My opinion is that partial immunities are worse than boosts and need to go. Soon all creatures will have at least one partial immunity. Hybrids “deserve” partial immunity, cause their parrents have it.

I’m up against plenty of high level well boosted Gemini, and they can be countered. Small-minded? I don’t think so.

Well-boosted isn’t what I was talking about.
But I may have been a bit hasty with my claim. I’m sure there’s monster Grypolyths and Trykosauruses out there that can handle most Geminis.

Regardless, we can agree to disagree about nerfs being necessary.

1 Like