# Defense Level 5 and Ludia Math

Since it has been this way for months…

Can one of the mods please ask the developers why the weekly level 5 defense mission Defense Training requires 4000 battles, but Attack Practice requires 2000 enemy takedowns? Are the players to assume the game is designed with the expectation that in more than half our battles we’re expected to never take down an opponent? Or maybe, just maybe, those numbers are unrealistic but since Ludia doesn’t financially benefit from correcting the mistake it’s not really a priority. TIA for a response.

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Or, failing a logical answer to the above question, maybe someone could ask how the unrealistic figure of 4000 battles was figured out.

Even the very top alliances can’t be bothered with such a crazy high amount of battles for alliance defence missions. Who in their right mind would imagine 50 members all having at least 80 battles each in a matter of a day or two max?

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Yup. This is where our alliance is always stuck!

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It’s hard, espacially when the number of alliance members becomes less and less. Last month -10, this month probably -10 again.

Khmer - even with a fully active alliance of 50 members all playing it’s a ridiculous ask.

Let’s say the average match time is 4 minutes, and it’s often more by the time you find one, but for the sake of fairness we can say 4 minutes per match is the average. Each member needs to do 80 matches so that’s FIVE HOURS and 33 minutes of non stop battling!!! In many cases it would be longer as the wait can be tortuous at times, and friendlies seem impossible to get due to server issues.

So how is this a reasonable ask?
Seriously Ludia, could we please have an answer to this as spending over five and half hours minimum on one task is just crazy.

Both my current and previous alliance have 4 or even 5 days to do the rank 5 - not that many battles per member if you start early enough - 452 battles to go and 200 incubators so should hit 5/5 in the next few hours … I don’t think it is unreasonable that 5/5 is only achievable by the best of the best. Just needs active members and a bit of co-ordination/stacking at the start.

C’mon OP… it’s rank 5… it should be hard

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PQC - If I remember correctly level 4 requires 2000 battles which is 40 per player, and that assumes EVERY player is doing their 40 battles. So how you get 5 days to do level 5 is beyond me.

I fully respect that everyone will have different designs on how they play the game. From the casual player who dips in and out, to the committed player who may play for hours and hours a day. There are alliances to suit all types of player and this is a good thing. But this kind of dedication to complete defence missions is over the top for the vast majority of players.

All the alliances I have been in since their implementation have only reached the final defence mission with 2 days max to do it. If I’m honest, it really doesn’t seem worth the time and effort to even attempt this, and certainly if an alliance insisted that I battled for at least 2 hours every day 7 days a week, plus completing all the other tasks, I would see it as hard work rather than a game.

You may say that’s my choice and the choice of the players in the alliance. Clearly your alliance is dedicated and you complete it so it’s not impossible. But where does one draw the line between fun and sheer torture?

All I’m saying is that 4000 battles for one level on defence tasks is over the top for the majority of alliances.

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Even I was surprised that we had 5 days to do Rank 5 this week - 4 is more normal and is doable; less than 4 and you have a real uphill struggle. And you’re right - it was battles that was the final task needed for Rank 4 - a number of members did put in an intense few hours to get that over the line - which was their choice and in fairness wasn’t really needed - but thumbs up to them.

I agree not every alliance will be able to do that because of the number of inactive or casual players, etc etc but I stand by my assertion that that is how it should be - the best alliances get the best prizes - it would devalue the effort if an alliance of 25 casual players could walk 5/5.

And as far as “best” prizes goes - some would say its not worth the effort, especially some weeks, but for me (and I can’t speak for others in the alliances I have been in, but I know many hold the same view) 5/5 is not about the prizes, its about the achievement, the ethos of being 5/5, to be the best of the best. And I know its “just a game” but I don’t do anything half-heartedly (well, maybe housework).

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As a leader of my own alliance i can definitely feel where you are coming from. However i have to agree with both sides of it. It is rank 5 so its meant to be the hardest, at the same time the dna you get from the defense inc is usually not worth working that hard. My alliance has cleared up to rank 4 in exploration in 36 hours (even less a few times) several times. The defense is a different story though. That amount of battles is a bit ridiculous to me but i know a few alliances who can pull off the 5/5 and it isn’t just whales or people who don’t work, they are just extremely coordinated and usually strict. Its hard to get an alliance with 50 people willing to commit that hard though. Honestly we get limited more by the daily battle inc requirements than we do with just the battles though since some of us only get on to battle. I find it a bit tedious, maybe even annoying, trying to focus on exploration and battles at the same time. Its not really a “how committed are YOU to the game” its more of a “EVERYONE here needs to be committed at the same level and this is what it is” situation. Exploration usually has the better DNA and is more worth it and easier anyways. Just my 2 cents, its a hive mind coordination more so than an individuals motivation. Like i said i agree with the OP and @PQC and i can definitely see both sides of it. Especially since i have some very close feiends that lead 5/5 alliances.

If you’re having issues with DBIs holding up things (and to a degree Interactions since they were introduced) the key is to stack them as soon as you don’t need them for Rank 5 (apart from any personal mission needs); you can stack up to 3 unopened DBIs and 8 Interactions. If you then keep a careful eye on the current rank and only unstack what you need you can fly through the early ranks. Apologies if you already know this - just trying to be helpful

Sometimes I feel really weird why people battling so hard for that extra 200 to 300 DNA ( Difference between rank 4 and 5)
And those rewards are not alliance mission exclusive . It can be found in the wild every now and then
For me it’s just a benchmark to measure whether all the alliance members is active or not .

100% The clue is in the word “alliance” (and no, I’m not being sarcastic even though it does read like that a little )

I know lol. Thats why I’m saying i agree with you. Hitting rank 5 without having at least 80% of the alliance at the same standard is difficult though and I’m not one to try to force people to do more than they wish. I also can’t kick people just because they don’t want to spend that much time doing things. As long as they are helping with missions and donating and we are hitting 5/4 every week I’m ok with it. I would love to hit 5/5 for the glory of Asgard but it isn’t a necessity and i totally get that alot of people who play don’t want to commit that hard. Idt alot of people remember that the alliance missions were way hard before Ludia tweaked them due to their difficulty lol.

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Yep, some alliances are very strict on activity levels which is their perogative.

My take on my current alliance (and again, being careful not to speak for everyone) is that we will plan and aim for 5/5 every week but if we only do 5/4 its no big deal and we certainly won’t be booting active members or expecting them to quit over it. Which to my mind is a good balance.

It is a good balance. Alot of 5/5 alliances use spread sheets and track who is doing what very carefully (since COUGH COUGH ludia won’t give alliance leaders tools for properly running alliances). They also use a check and balances system where they have players monitor each other a bit (some not all). I personally don’t want to make my members due more work by watching each other but they can if they wish since i have no way of tracking who does what really especially since Ludia changed how trophies are shown on players (highest trophies earned this season) which is honestly one of the dumbest things they could’ve done and it took away the 1 tool i actually had to watch progress or lack there of.

Eeek! Hadn’t heard about the monitoring each other thing - that’s bordering on the sinister. I wouldn’t have the patience to run an Alliance and salute those who do; even the simplest of tools (weekly/daily activity breakdown per member) would transform the whole managing side of things. I do wonder though if one of the reasons for not providing such data is that it would be bordering on privacy / data protection violation …

It wouldn’t. I have played many alliance based games and this is the only game with an alliance system that has absolutely no way of tracking anything feom players. Someone who is almost inactive but like the weekly mission incs can battle 1 time at the beginning of each season and the leader would have 0 idea if they were active or not because the count will only change if they go up. Its annoying to try and deal with and frustrates me. All i want is the best for my alliance members, especially the ones who have been here since the day alliances came out. Its not fair to them when they work so hard. I don’t like leeches that dont help but reap rewards and it sucks for all that put in effort to not hit 5/4 every week especially when its good dna. It makes me upset because i know there are some leeches here but i have no way of knowing who isn’t helping.

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I absolutely 100% agree that the fact that there are no tools for the alliance leader to use to monitor activity is ridiculous.

One can’t help but wonder how many alliance members simply log in now and again but religiously check in to get the rewards every week!

It’s an impossible task as a leader to know who does what, other than the name showing on who has contributed the most to each task when it’s complete. This alone indicates it must be easy enough to allow the leader to see how much (or how little) is done by each member.

Even a simple log in button to press daily by each member, or message of the day for the leader to ask a simple question, would be better than the nothing they have now. Especially as the trophy count level is fixed by the best of the season.

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Yep. Trophies were my only way to monitor who was at least battling. No trophy movement in a week? You’re gone. Now i can’t even do that and its stupid. In no way, shape, or fashion did ANYONE ask for this. It also makes it impossible to grasp what the difference is between yourself and a recent opponent is to check and see if you should’ve even been matched with them. You can’t go off of trophy counts at all anymore and there is no logical reason behind it.

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