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Defense shattering rampage is too powerful

Defense shattering rampage does too much damage too often. I just had a string of fights against thoradolasaurs and argentimaximas in every fight and it’s the same every fight. Thor is so fast and does so much damage that even vs distraction abilities it will win most of the time. A speed boosted thor will solo an entire team without even taking damage.

Maxima will take damage, but it will slow and then take off usually more than half the opponent’s health with every hit.

Evasion is too unreliable because it only works some of the time and a critical hit means you may as well have not done it at all.

Damage overall is too high, but defense shattering rampage just makes it ridiculous. If you’re not going to reduce the overall damage or increase health pools, then at least increase the cooldown on rampage.

Every second hit means that there is almost no defense against it except being faster and doing more damage. Swapping out just means you lose two fights in most cases.

If you can’t actually do any swapping because all the high damage creatures do so much damage that it just increases how fast you lose, then there is no strategy to the game and combat could be autoresolved based on a calculation, since it’s mathematically predetermined who will win most fights before hand by the stats of the creatures being so high that there is no way to put out enough damage to defeat them before they defeat you.

I suppose really what it comes down to is that the health pool is too small for the damage output and boosts have removed all of the pros and cons of certain creatures to make it “most boosted wins”

2 Likes

Sounds like another boost problem.

But DSR is too common. It seems every other new hybrid has to get it or a version of it, and Armour-piercing moves are all but forgotten.

What happened to the old Ludia logic of hybrids being imperfect and their superhybrids improving upon them? I mean, some hybrids are just alternative versions of their parents, which is also great, but now we’re getting clones like Maxima and Mammolania.

I think DSR and Definite Rampage should be replaced by AP versions in a lot of non-superhybrids, so that shielding creatures aren’t so utterly gutted.

Entelomoth could do with APR, Maxima or Ardonto could do with an AP move or two, Entelochops doesn’t need to go through Shields, Mammotherium could get an AP version of Definite Rampage, etc.

This way, their superhybrids don’t have to be literally exactly the same but with more Immunities.

The older tanks like the Nodopato hybrids, Tragodistis and Alankylosaurus would finally have an important role again.

8 Likes

What even is the point of armor and shields? I have a trykosaurus. An erlidominus did 4000 damage to it with one hit and that’s WITHOUT cloak. It seems even things that have no defense bypassing abilities will still defeat anything with defensive abilities in 2 hits. That suggests to me that none of these systems are working.

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That is a boost problem, not a balancing one. At equal levels, a Trykosaurus can survive a Cloaked Rampage from an Erlidominus.
Any drastic changes to that exchange in favour of Tryko would break it.

9 Likes

I feel it’s a mathematics problem. “double damage” is exponential. At 1500 base damage that’s 3000. At 2000 it’s 4000 damage. The issue is absolutely boosts related because they completely throw out the balance of those tradeoffs, but also at the high levels, these numbers are going too high.

So the question is, does a max attack boosted Erlidom OHKO a max health boosted Tryko with a Cloaked Rampage at equal levels…?

The answer to that is no, at level 26 (I don’t know their level 30 base stats).

Unless it crits, but that is also true of an unboosted Tryko and Erlidom.

2 Likes

It doesn’t need to OHKO, it can do it in 2 hits because it’s faster (assuming the Tryko doesn’t use invuln for that hit) and it will crit likely becuase of cloak.

Thors and Argentimaximas seem to crit practically every second hit

Yes, it does. If it doesn’t crit, Trykosaurus’ DSR and counter will land, and that’s bye-bye Erlidominus. Not only that, Instant Invincibility wasn’t used, so that’s an extra round of counter damage ready, in case Tryko didn’t use DSR. Either way, Erlidom loses.

Cloak doesn’t affect critical chance.

4 Likes

Increase the cooldown? Heck no.
It was already done to definite rampage and that was a nerf that i still find completely unnecessary (not to mention It didn’t fix the main problem with the meta but i digress). Most of what you’re talking about is a boost problem, not a problem of DSR. The defense shattering mechanic is necessary in a game like this where we have armored and shield creatures. Yes, it’s true that it’s a common mechanic in the game and many tanks seem useless because of It. But there are still tanks that do very well in the end game like grypo and nemys, or even Tryko, Maxima and Dio If you want to include them as tanks. Tanks are not dead, but basic tank design from the tank meta no longer works here(for the end game at least, though i will find some competent thicc stegods from time to time) and i think that is for the better, there’s no way that meta was balanced. Some of the current tanks that follow this old format need a bit of a rework. At last, i don’t want my DSR creatures to lose the move or have It nerfed, they aren’t unbalanced because of it, DSR is fine.

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Which ones? All of them?
Because I think certain creatures really don’t need a Rampage that goes through Shields.

It’s a boost problem, trust me.

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Given that we’re in the middle of a resurgence of the tank meta, at least among the top tier dinos, I say defense shattering moves are quite vital.

2 Likes

The one i use is Maxima and i think It should keep It, i was mostly refering to that. I use Tryko too. I don’t use Thor or Tenrex but wouldn’t want them to lose It either. They are chompers after all.

Boosts are the problem

No I don’t think so; but also ya erlidom need to crit to KO it same with Indoraptor or magna

Same I think it’s fine but I think the issue is that even lower creatures have defense shattering like stuff like allo, tarbo, opha, or rares and that fact that most everything usally has a defense shattering at least in There eyes.

But the. You look at the numbers and it really does seem that way


Here is every Dino with defense shatteriing

And here is every Dino with shields


And there is kinda a biggish difference but for now I think it’s fine especially that there is also way more creatures that can’t go thru shield or armor

Distract it.
Or use cloak or evasive.

You need to be able to handle (and use) DSR well if you want even a remote shot at being successful in PvP.

3 Likes

I think Tryko, Thor and Tenontorex definitely deserve DSR. Maxima is fine as is now that stuff like Tryo can counter it, but I’d still prefer it reworked.

I don’t actually think any of the Uniques need to lose any Defense-shattering abilities. Entelomoth and Entelochops are what come to mind first. Mammotherium could trade Definite Rampage for some sort of Raking APR.

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Practically all of those creatures are fine, especially the non-hybrids. I think certain key non-superhybrids could lose DSR though. It gives their hybrids something to improve upon, and potentially makes Shielders more relevant.

Looking at the list, Mammotherium and Entelomoth both stick out the most. They have high base damage and can shrug off Distraction, as well as a Cleansing move each. Ardontosaurus could do with a rework too, I don’t like how it has the same moveset as Maxima, but it obviously has to remain an Indoraptor G2 counter.

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lol but there is an interesting pattern, if you look there is just a bit more shielders in common to rarer then it skyrockets in epic and legendary and then splats down in unique. The number of shielders I mean