Discussion on Archetypes


#1

Hey folks, I’m having some trouble understanding archetypes and I’m hoping someone can help me out.

Okay so we all know that there are 4 archetypes:

  1. Mighty - high Damage
  2. Skilled - high Attack
  3. Sturdy - high HP
  4. Tough - high AC

But these archetypes don’t seem to actually do what they advertise. Maybe I’m wrong?

PCs

Let's assume that all my PCs are level 8 (they aren't) and they have level-appropriate gear (they more or less do). I also don't have the dragonborn ranger yet.

Attack

Theoretically, Skilled characters are supposed to have the highest attack scores. That means Naomlen and Farideh should have the highest out of everyone. But that's simply not true. For my characters:
Farideh (lvl 8) Naomlen (lvl 7) Halbenet (lvl 9) Shevarith (lvl 9) Raika (lvl 8) Tommus (lvl 7)
161 193 213 236 202 135

I realize that not all their levels are the same, but Shevarith was just level 8 and her Attack score was 230 when she was level 8. There’s not that much that changed between my level 9 characters and my level 8 characters (I don’t have any legendary items equipped).

Farideh has the second lowest Attack score out of all the characters. She should be higher than Raika, who is the same level. She should be higher than Naomlen, who is also Skilled but a level lower. And she should be higher than if not similar to Halbenet and Shevarith who are both a different archetype, but a level higher.

HPs

Characters that are Sturdy are supposed to have the highest HP. But here are my characters:
Raika (lvl 8) Halbanet (lvl 9) Farideh (lvl 8) Shevarith (lvl 9) Naomlen (lvl 7) Tommus (lvl 7)
2199 1430 1395 1315 1086 1419

So clearly Raika is doing what she’s supposed to be doing, being really Sturdy. But Halbanet is also Sturdy and a level higher than Raika, and his HP are 1/3 lower than Raika’s, and only marginally higher than Tommus, who he’s 2 levels higher than. So Halbanet is not as Sturdy as advertised.

Damage

Mighty character should have the highest damage. Disclaimer: I don't have the dragonborn ranger, who is also Mighty.
Shevarith (lvl 9) Halbanet (lvl 9) Farideh (lvl 8) Raika (lvl 8) Naomlen (lvl 7) Tommus (lvl 7)
442-596 429-579 394-590 303-503 318-428 222-332

However, here, Shevarith’s listed damage is almost the same as Halbanet’s, and Farideh is pretty close too, despite being a level lower. I would have expected to see Shevarith’s much higher. However, in practice, Shevarith seems to deal the most damage which I think is related to her very high Attack score, not her Damage score.

AC

Characters that are Tough are supposed to have the highest AC. I don't really use Tommus that much and he is the only Tough character, so his stats are expected to be a bit lower than my other characters.
Tommus (lvl 7) Halbanet (lvl 9) Farideh (lvl 8) Shevarith (lvl 9) Naomlen (lvl 7) Raika (lvl 8)
242 203 168 176 171 238

So this does seem to be working as intended, although Raika has a pretty high AC for a non-Sturdy character.

Enemies

Enemies also have archetypes and there is something called the "archetype advantage." So Skilled characters have an advantage against Tough monsters; Tough characters have an advantage against Mighty monsters; Mighty characters have an advantage against Sturdy monsters; and Sturdy characters have an advantage against Skilled monsters. This translates into a green, yellow, or red targeting arrow over an enemy when it's your turn; a green arrow means you do bonus damage and a red arrow means you do reduced damage.

I had a theory for a while that this didn’t have a large impact so I decided to try to test it. Now it’s a bit tricky to test, considering you roll randomly for damage and come across random monsters, so I don’t have complete data points, but here goes.

Test 1: Farideh vs. the Skeletons

My Farideh is level 8 and has a listed damage of 394-590. Every time she came across a level 8 skeleton, I would record her damage, excluding criticals and boosted (or lowered) damage.
vs Green Enemies vs Yellow Enemies vs Red Enemies
Actual damage rolls (italic for out of listed damage range) 343, 365, 384, 421, 486, 486, 505, 509, 516 361, 431, 490, 547, 551, 560, 576 279, 293, 306, 322, 378, 392
Average damage 446 502 328

Average damage for a range of 394-590 is 492. Considering that Farideh is equal in level to the monsters, I would expect the average damage vs yellow enemies to therefore be about 492. It’s 502, which is close enough.

Then I would expect the average damage vs red enemies to be lower; the question is how much lower? In this case, it’s about 35% lower, a significant margin.

But we’re also seeing lower average output versus green enemies - both lower than expected, and lower than average versus yellow enemies. We would have expected it to be higher than versus yellow enemies.


#3

Well, note that each enemy also has different stats.

If you are strong against an enemy with high AC, you could see lower damage against the high AC enemies than against the high HP enemies, but a larger percent of the monster’s HP. Or, maybe just better than your buddy with the same ATK and Damage.

As far as I can tell, damage is determined by ATK vs AC and your Damage stat, plus your Archetype advantage.


#4

Fair enough. So you think that the archetype advantage is significant enough, we just don’t see it because it’s buried under other modifiers?