Ludia Forums

Evasion is ruining the game

Title says it all. Every battle, over and over again, the deciding factor is evasion.

The winner is determined by whose evasion holds and whose does not.

This is not fun. This is not strategy. This is battles based on pure RNG and its insulting to the player base.

When I win, I win because my evasion holds and op’s did not. When I lose, I lose because my evasion failed and op’s did not.

High Aviary is the same mess over and over again: Erlo, Indo, IG2, Indom.

I would prefer the entire game be nothing but old Dracocera rather than this RNG-fest.

Yes, I am angry over this.

At the very least, give Maxima its definite rampage back…that would actually be balanced instead of the “balanced for evasion” approach being taken right now.

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I am not seeing any realistic arguments below in favor of evasion as it currently stands. Comparing evasion to other mechanics is always falling short because evasion tends to be on dinos with high attacks themselves. Many stun dinos do not have high attack, as well any immune creature can counter that. Many immune dinos have low health so anything with high attack can somewhat counter those, as well as evasion can counter immunes in a sense. Each mechanic tends to have a whole group of decent dinos that can counter it, but evasion is lacking in counters. Being that people are starting to realize that in the Aviary, its becoming the standard.

The one argument that does make sense is not one I have specifically seen mentioned and its reliant on info I do not have. If higher arenas like Gyro or something are not seeing this issue, then its possible they have more counters. It is possible that in Aviary we are seeing so much of the evasion because that is what Ludia has given us. Due to events promoting indo, ig2, procera, etc…its possible these evasion dinos are simply the best ones we have at the moment and that as there is more progression, we get more counters. I cannot say if that is realistic as I have not been above Aviary, but it seems that is the only argument that does not consist of “learn to counter it” which I do counter it with what I have, or “its better than it used to be”. Those fall short considering that every match I have to assume the first dino my op brings out is going to be evasive, and that likely one or two more they bring out will also be evasive. Its muddling up the pool of what we can use, its making at least Aviary quite stale and boring.

As well, this is not about losing. I am confident I could go beyond Aviary, but I do not as each time I get close I get matched against much higher leveled dinos. I still win much more than I lose and typically I am losing by choice because I understand where my ceiling is.

6 Likes

They should then remove criticals too and everything else that is rng based, stuns etc.

3 Likes

There are counter for that, and more you fight more you learn.

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I agree with the first post. I wouldn’t if ludias random number generator were better at producing probable results more often, but they defy probability (in both directions) far too often (e.g. 2-3 5% crits same battle, getting hit through cloak 3-5x in a single battle, going extended periods of time with 100% stun rate, etc.)

These situations should occur. They should be improbable but not impossible.

The problem is with ludias random number generator they are far more probable occurrences than they should be. Heck this can be seen with fuses too.

It is absolutely streaky (I’ve proven it before recording over 100 battles) and that makes it feel hard-coded to kind of monitor results then hard correct if your rng has been too good (or too bad.) Not long ago I had my dilo crit 3x in a row.

Ludias random number generator needs to be looked at. I’ve said this for over a year and I stand by it.

Edit: gotta disagree with wanting old dracocera. No thanks.

8 Likes

I definitely agree that maxima needs definite rampage back since it’s the best counter for indos. Though If you say evasion is dominating the arena, there are a a good number of dinos with evasion countering abilities in the end game. The mechanic doesn’t need any more change imo, It was useless after the first nerf, now we have a middle ground, you always will recieve damage, but with a higher chance to recieve less. A good trade off. Of course, having more new creatures with null, precise and definite is good for the health of the game.

4 Likes

I know the game pretty well…this is not a lack of knowledge.

If I put a team ready to counter evasion, that team will struggle against all non-evasion dinos. I made an entire post before where all of my dinos were evaders or counters. I have tested this pretty well and my conclusion is again and again, evasion is ruining the game. I am winning just as much as I am losing, but it is no longer based on any real strategy only whose evasion works and whose does not.

Saying simply that there are counters is to also accept the old draco…as you could counter it with a another swap in. At least with Draco it was a human action…not an rng wait-and-see action.

Its not a middle ground when it has become the dominant force and that dominant force is not based on human action of any kind…this is worse than draco.

Yeah that could be the answer…taking a look at the rng may make it better.

1 Like

The other rng elements are not as weighted…that is not the same thing. Also, the other rng elements have natural counters such as immunity. Evasions work on the dino, so the only real counters are effect removal.

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It’s not dominant at all in my experience, i don’t fight teams of 8 evasion dinos, and i have evasion countering dinos for the few dodgers my opponents might have drawed. All evasion dinos, except for indo gen2, have effective counters. The mechanic combined with the dinos is not game breaking by any means when those dinos can be regularly defeated by their counters.

2 Likes

I cannot speak for other areas…I said High Aviary. This was also the case in low Aviary too. Maybe above that its different?

Again, saying “there are counters” is not an answer. I use the counters…

The problem is that it is defining the game right now. Power, health, speed, stuns,…none of this matters even close to as much as “does this have evasion” and “does this remove evasion”.

That is the issue. Counters are not, its dominating. Again, the argument to the rat was that it was dominating and we had to build teams around knowing the rat was coming. Now its build teams knowing the evasion is coming and that the evasion is pure rng making the rat at least human dependent.

So you have counters, but still can’t beat them so they need to be removed?

Also would like to know how do you counter critical hits, since you can’t know if it’s coming or not.

I laid out the argument. When teams have to built around a specific move or type of move, that is a problem. We saw that with Draco.

Now, we are seeing it with evasion. What makes the issue worse is that evasion is rng based and not part of a strategy beyond crossing our fingers hoping it works or does not work or that we draw the counter. Again, I win plenty, your assumption is that I am losing…which makes you incorrect. I am able to see a problem, even if its beneficial to me, and still call it a problem.

As well try not to use false comparisons like saying critical is anything close to evasion…it lessens your entire stance.

Well, I am in the library right now and I don’t feel evasion dominating at all. The only thing with evasion that is very opressive is a high level indo gen2. Erlidom for exemple is easily defeated by Tryko and Dio, and it’s a top tier dodger. Both indos are a bit of a problem now that they removed definite rampage from Maxima. But before that change i felt the arena was pretty balanced in regards to dinos countering each other(though i agree indo gen2 and maxima needed some sort of nerf, i just don’t agree with how It was done).

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I don’t have Tryko, but I do not consider attack counters an actual counter to evasion as it again is dependent on the rng. I consider effect removal the counter. I do agree though, Maxima and even IG2 having definite rampage kept the evasion in check. With those back, I do not think it would be the issue it is that I am seeing.

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Who here build their team only to counter draco?

I wasn’t comparing it to evasion I was comparing it to draco…

I can’t think of any other reason for anyone to complain about evasion.

I wonder if you are playing the same game I have been playing. If players did not set their team with Draco in mind, then they would be unable to kill the rat before it got away only to hit them again and potentially win.

That was literally like every player for months until recently. There are countless threads and post on this forum saying the exact same thing.

Let’s just give all dinosaurs one weak base attack. Let’s just remove all the heavy hitting special moves. Anything to cater to the whiners. Oy vey and this is why I do the things I do and this why I am always sarcastic.

Well, i never said Tryko and Dio were evasion counters, just that they hard counter Erlidom, even If not by anti-evasion moves( though Dio has definite counter).
Indeed, i agree, just that simple uncaled for removal of definite on both those dinos was enough to cause a bit of an inbalance, so they definitely should get the move back and be nerfed another way. Though i still believe the mechanic is fine as It is. Requiring counters does not make It unbalanced.

I do not want evasion removed…I don’t specifically even want it changed. Something should be done so that it is not dominating. That may be more dinos with the ability remove it that are also good in other areas.