Evasion priority yes or no?

Still feeling that evasion needs a bit of a balance tweak. The last poll favored not reducing the amount of turns from 3 to 2. That would weaken it vs everything. This poll is about just removing the priority from the move. This only gives it a technical loss of a turn vs faster creatures or priority moves from slower creatures. Most evasion creatures are fast so the loss in minimal but helpful and tactical.

(Do to this being a smaller change the poll will be a scale of how you feel about this type of change.)

Should priority be removed from Evasion?

  • Strongly agree
  • Agree
  • Neutral
  • Disagree
  • Strongly Disagree

0 voters

I believe some should have it while others could have strikes and such

Evasion in general?
Cloak, Evasive Stance, Sidestep, Evasive Strike, Prowl and Deliberate Prowl are all Evasion moves.
Plus Evasive Impact is something that Ludia suggested for Procerathomimus.
Not all of these are Priority moves in the first place.

@Ben_West, is this whole discussion a result of facing all the boosted Indoraptors and Proceras in the arena?

I’m asking because the context of the move is very important.
Just like Long Protection on Carnotarkus is much more troublesome to deal with than on Lythronax, it’s important to specify which creature is causing the problem.
Someone who only faces Monomimus might argue that Evasive Stance needs a buff.
Reworking a creature’s kit is much easier and less problematic than changing a move that’s on multiple creatures, especially ones players have invested in.

TL;DR— there’s other ways to tackle this problem—if it is what I think it is—apart from changing longstanding moves. Arguably better ones at that.

4 Likes

I face both Indoraptors regularly, in practically every match, sometimes together, with Yoshi too.
It definitely gets repetitive, and if you only have a few counters, eventually you’re going to find yourself in a match against the Indos where you’re stuck without them.

I feel like since both their DNA has been made available so frequently (Yoshi’s too), either directly or indirectly, we’re feeling their impact in the arena disproportionately compared to other top-tier dinos like Phorusaura, which are powerful yet less players run.

Still, I feel like this issue needs to be addressed, and I have a few ideas that I think aren’t unreasonable.

1] Regarding Indoraptor:
This one fell from grace into near uselessness after the Evasion nerf, and was compensated by making it Immune to both stun and distraction, two major debuffs that helped the competition get the edge.
Stun was a good counter to priority moves like Evasive Stance, both on slower dinos (Tuora and the Sino hybrids, along with Monostegotops and Tragodistis) and on faster ones (Diloracheirus).
Distraction was great at blocking that DSR, which is why faking out with Cleansing Impact/AP Strike was a viable strategy to waste opponent turns. Needless to say, the mind games were intense.
Utasino, Rinex, Dilorach, Dilorano, Tryko, Dio, even Suchotator could rely on Distraction to try and mitigate Indo’s high damage output, and without this weakness Indoraptor took on a new role as Tryko-and-Dio-assassin.

In other words, the buffs did well to make this Unique more relevant in the face of the Evasion nerf and guaranteed damage, so when Evasion was buffed to be as reliable as stun, we then had a creature that can avoid damage while indiscriminately DSRing the living daylights out of everything, regardless of their abilities.

True, it’s stats were nerfed a bit in light of this, but what difference does a minor stat nerf make in the face of getting extra 2x hits on opponents, without having to worry about being stopped dead by a stun?

TL;DR— Indoraptor has abused its partial Immunities enough. Immunity to stun is my favourite for removal, with Immunity to Distraction being less so. It might still need it to remain relevant, so that one’s up for debate.
Vulnerability to stunning would make an immediate difference in the arena, in my opinion.

2] Regarding Indoraptor G2:
This one was modelled after the Indoraptor of the time, so it got the Evasion compensation too, in the form of partial Immunities.
It did get nerfed later, but to Indoraptor standards, which are still quite high.
So same story as with Indoraptor.

As for Cautious Strike, that’s a different story (it would already be less abusable without Stun-immunity, so that’s secondary, but in case you’re wondering, I think taking away CS’s Speedup and Cleanse would be perfect, and I’d be willing to explain why, on a more relevant thread).

3] Regarding Procerathomimus:
Immunity, Distraction and Evasive Stance. Any chomper’s worst nightmare. And also most creatures in general, when on a creature with stats so high.

Here the solution is obvious. Stat drop to reasonable levels for its ingredients, and a moveset change…?
Well, that last one isn’t really necessary, but I think giving it a moveset where it doesn’t have to continuously stall for delays and cooldowns would be more fun to use.
I liked the Evasive Impact (2 turn effect and cooldown, like the other impacts) idea in the poll, since it makes more sense based on Ornithomimus’ Evasive Strike.
Plus, now if you outspeed Procera, it’s only a matter of a move or two before you take it out.

It could lose the Rampage too, since it gets another multiplier, making it a viable revenge-killer and overall better turn-1 dino if it got Distracting Impact. I remember Procera got Distracting Rampage back when it had no delay, so like on Rinex and Pyrritator the Impact would make sense.

This way Evasive Stance remains untouched, and Procera is less like an alternate Monomimus. I personally want at least one of them to get Evasive Impact.

1 Like

Until we have boosts, evasive should stay as it is. Sadly it’s sometimes only option against those super fast Thors.

3 Likes

What about a move called “deliberate dodge”

2 Likes

It’s fine, if it loses priority then it becomes useless!

4 Likes

If dodge isn’t priority it would be pointless. It is designed to be quick to be effective.

4 Likes

Isn’t that just evasive strike

First thing, I am liking the clearer picture this poll is giving having 5 options.

Second, this poll was only in reference to Evasive Stance

Third, sorry about Monomimus. He was completely overlooked when considering this concept

Fourth, thank you @Qaw for your comments and insight. You are correct regarding this being an attempt to balance the hoard of indoraptors and Phceras.

2 Likes

Removing stun from indoraptors might only make thor even worse and would make Para even more annoying. Just remove cleanse from both of them. Bleeders would get something to do and slowing moves would stick.

As for Procera, what about just replacing Evasive Stance with Evasive Strike? it’s only an epic

2 Likes

But like you can slow and bleed for a while cleasing takes two turn to cool down it leaves it very vulnerable to bleed and slow( I’ve exploited this why thyla and such before) so ya let’s not remove cleanse

1 Like

I’m just trying to think what’s the point of trying to dodge after you have been hit. Next turn you will die anyway because you always take some damage.

1 Like

That is were timing and skill come into play

1 Like

Think about balance here. Thor has 0 immunities and no cleanse moves. With two immunities the indos are still very powerful

1 Like

Can you explain that a little bit? If I know I will die in 2 turns no matter if I dodge or not, why would I waste my turn on evasive anything? If you have move that dodges and does damage okay, but evasive stance or sidestep?

If you are going to die in 2 turns no matter what? Then you are going to die. Not sure what your point is here.
I’ll explain my point. When facing a faster opponent, you would cast evasive stance the turn before your opponents best attack move. You would take full damage from the current less powerful attack but less from it’s next 2 attacks

Dodge doesn’t work 100% of the time though.

What that would do is either hit opponent for sure one time or try to dodge once and then hit them.

Evasive stance is 3 turns. So, it would still be dodge twice