Ludia Forums

Fierce attack redundancy

While looking at the new Thor, I noticed that it’s fierce strike does nothing for it over defense shattering strike. Fierce strike is basically defense shattering strike with the additions of cleansing vulnerability on self and removing taunt. In 2.0, (most) defense shattering moves were changed to also remove taunt, so the vulnerability cleanse is the only actual difference. Now, Thor is actually immune to vulnerability already, so switching dss to fierce strike had no purpose.

Upon doing further digging, I found many creatures like this, with fierce attacks that are immune to vulnerable. For these dinosaurs, there is no reason not to have defense shattering attacks instead. Note that this is NOT like other cases where a dinosaur doesn’t get use from some of the difference between an old attack and a new one. For example, yoshi gets no use out of the DOT cleanse since it’s immune to it, but does benefit greatly from the distraction and damage increase removal effects, so the move has greater utility over any alternative. Also note that I’m not saying that fierce attacks need a buff or are useless in all cases, only that there is no difference between a fierce move and its defense shattering equivalent if the creature its on has immunity to vulnerable. Anyway, here is the full list (that I can find, excluding vulnerability resistances below 100%)

Thor
Indominus G1
Monolometerodon
Tryostronix
Tarbosaurus
Allo G2
Baryonyx
Postimeterodon
Secodontosaurus
Allosaurus
Edaphosaurus

This isn’t a huge issue, since I’m kind of complaining about a move not being different from another. The only real problem here is how to differentiate DS and fierce moves. But there is opportunity here. Since fierce is meant to counter resilient, perhaps they could add the ability to cleanse deceleration to fierce attacks? This would probably be the most controversial change regarding this ability. There is a strong case to be made for this option though. Resilients are currently very strong, and fierce is meant to counter them, so why not add this? Additionally, vulnerability is already a fairly niche debuff, only being on ankylosaurs, turtles, and a handful of hybrids. So adding another ability to fierce strike may not be that far above the games existing power curve (especially considering how strong they made resilient attacks). Even if they did this, fierce attacks would STILL be redundant on the handful of creatures that have immunity to both vulnerability and deceleration, like Secodontosaurus. The alternate to differentiate DS and fierce is to remove the taunt removal from DS. There is actually evidence to support the taunt removal on DS being a late addition, since some rarer DS moves (like group shattering strike and revenge shattering rampage) don’t actually remove taunt. Of course, they could also just switch all fierce moves on these creatures to their DS equivalents, but I feel like they put DS moves on creatures to give them an additonal advantage.

Anyway, how do you all think Ludia should handle this redundancy?

There is one problem with adding Decel cleanse to Fierce moves. It only makes a difference in matchups where the fierce creature is faster than the resilient creature, but in those cases, since the fierce creature moves first, there is no Deceleration to Cleanse. By the time there is, it’s either too late, or it won’t make a difference to the matchup, since fierce creatures typically 2-hit KO their opponents, except when they get 2-hit KO’d themselves.

What would work is if you added both a Deceleration cleanse and a speed buff of, say 5% to the fierce move.

Maybe. I guess it would only make a difference if the fierce creature is A) already faster than the resilient before they get slowed and B) can survive two hits from the resilient. Most turns would go like this: fierce creature attacks. Resilient slows fierce. Resilient is now faster and attacks again. Assuming that fierce survives, fierce creature uses a fierce attack to cleanse the deceleration, possibly killing the resilient in the process. And if resilient is still alive, fierce finishes them off. If there was a speed buff, they could also use fierce attacks to outspeed the resilient on the next turn if they were initially slower. I think part of the problem is the attack power of resilients, or at least the most meta relevant ones. Maxima and tryko have really high attack stats, but I feel like most resilients probably can’t 2-hit ko most fierces.

The other problem is having those nightmare hyper boosted t rex that get stupidly fast and now can’t really be slowed down, but they’re meant to be countered by distraction and dodge anyway.