Fierce

Ever since the beginning of 2.0 fierce creatures seem to be the worst class of all with certain creatures standing in there way. Over the updates we have received many fierce counters. 2.7 was a big hit for the fierce class with the introduction of flocks which dominated the arena. not to mention this was the time when the resilient creatures were at there peak killing almost ever fierce they see(im talking to you lux and cera) but then some resilients were nerfed and we were introduced to Scorpius rex gen 3 which completely flipped the meta and made fierce basically irrelevant. Then 2.11 comes along and we received phourex which was and still is an absolute beast in the arena. Along with phourex we got Indotaurus which is the only pure fierce to on the top teams in a long time. But where does all of this take us now?

In 2.12 and 2.13 we got the first ever megahycbrids(superhybrid+hybrid) and of those 2 updates we got the first 2 fuse able apex hybrids. Those 2 megahybrids being Ankylos lux and Arctovasilas. Both of these 2 are monsters and now more than ever we need good viable fierce besides indotaurus. Some people may be like we already got albertospinos but it sucks. Poor hp and poor attack which just is not enough to stand in the meta. We need more viable fierce to help counter these new apex creatures. Indotaurus was a good start but it alone cannot stand up to the new apex creatures.

I think it is safe to say that fierce have seemed to lose their role in the meta but I feel like they may be forced into the meta with Arctovasilas and Ankylos lux looking like really good creatures. To help combat this we need more fierce. I think an ideal fierce would be something more like IndoT. Something with good hp, decent attack, and a way to reduce incoming damage.

What do you guys think? and do you agree with me? Thanks for reading.

9 Likes

Honestly, I would love to see Albertospinos get buffed to become a very relevant bleeder. Tbh, all of the Fierce bleeders need some lovin’. I do agree that Fierce creatures should live up to their category name.

4 Likes

Just give Mortem Rex and other fierce a lockdown no escape / no escape move and reduce all resilient creature Swap immunities to 0.

It’s not that hard.

5 Likes

Yeeeesssss can we make Morty over powered again so you can then nerf it again when people moan about it?

Keep it going like a circle that will never end.

1 Like

Pure fierce have never had any kind of damage mitigation (distraction, shields, dodge), which means they’re more vulnerable than any other class while doing the same (or less) damage. They simply lack the ability to protect themselves. The only good fierce are ones that hybridize with cunning or resilient to gain some of this damage mitigation. They’re good against shields, but shields themselves aren’t super common or op in general, so they aren’t the most neccesary. They’re glass cannons, only without being much more of a cannon than most relevant dinos. No wonder we don’t see them in the meta. Unless the fierce class as a whole gains either some kind of damage reduction ability or ridiculous damage output, they won’t be good (although I would still be cautious about generalizing them). Albertospinos had the potential to be the later with all its DOT, but they dropped the ball on the stats and it’s poor turn 1.

3 Likes

Cleansing moves on a Fierce is a bad idea, especially since it wasn’t too long ago that Cunnings were in the exact same position Fierce creatures are now and Mortem having Cleansing Impact was one of the reasons why.

For Mortem in particular all it needs is an On-Escape attack and a decent HP buff, but the class as a whole should have 75% to 100% Resistance to Deceleration and Vulnerability regardless of Rarity.

Beyond that I’m not really certain there’s much else that needs to be done or could be done to balance Fierce creatures again without throwing Cunnings or Resilients under the bus and having this cycle of an unbalanced class system start all over again.

7 Likes

Indotarus has cloak same with indomimus rex and indomimus rex all have cloak

1 Like

Which is essentially a dodge, so they gain that viability by taking on what is basically a cunning trait, which is my point.

3 Likes

True. I just hope ludia can come up with a way to give fierce a way to negate damage without cloak

1 Like

Perhaps its just me but IT is just crazy good. I know that’s only 1, but if it pops off I lose at least 2 dinos to it.

Negating damage is the point though. That’s how Fierce creatures are supposed to be beaten that way.

Its their biggest weakness as a class by far. That’s not to say they NEED to have damage mitigation of their own (after all, that’s what makes the classes play differently), but they currently aren’t making up for it with their other stats and abilities.

6 Likes

Albertospinos and Thoradolosaur get invalidated by speed decrease abilities. Even a Ardentismaxima can beat them both head on.

Some Fierce should be designed to counter speed decrease abilities. One option is to give them a conditional ability: (1) Only if slowed, (2) Cleanse speed decrease and increase speed 10%, (3) Attack. This would encourage bulkier builds but not nitro builds.

I would also argue that Fierce uniques could heal based on damage done. So long as Cunning uniques can either reduce their damage to zero or two-turn them, it should not be broken.

1 Like

I think this is the main problem with fierce. Resilients have shields and armor, cunning have dodge and distraction so what about fierce?

1 Like

The other challenge is how they would implement this without directly copying one of the others. Already dodge and shields function incredibly similarly aside from the RNG component, reducing the damage taken by the user. And Distraction covers reducing the amount of damage done by the opponent. So I’m not sure how they would carve out a niche for fierce damage mitigation.

Fierce actually has pin ability as their only protection from swapper but Ludia dedicated to give tanker a swap immunity. All Fierce attack should give opponent creature pinning effect to prevent they run away after taking a bitt.

4 Likes

I’ve faced a couple luxes now. They are good and a neat addition to the game, but are very counterable. Bear king does very well vs them it seems.

Thats true, but this doesn’t protect them universally like a shield or dodge (which when active protect against all attacks that don’t remove or bypass it). Although maybe the fierce class shouldn’t have universal protection? Even so, this clearly isn’t quite enough to make pure fierce viable in the meta. Some of that is because of swap resistance/immunity on resilients, but I suspect that much of that is due to how inherently Conditional protection from swaps is. Plus any on escape ability can deter swapping if it’s good enough, so this general kind of protection from swapping isn’t exactly unique to the fierce class anyway.

4 Likes

Since they are called Fierce, the creatures should be able to have the ability to exploit weaknesses. Just a thought.

I agree, but unfortunately that ability is already in the game (vulnerability), and it’s resilient.