Ludia Forums

Game in a much better state but still has some major issues

A much broader range of creatures are now viable, so that’s a massive improvement to the game. Overall I think the change has been really good and well thought out.

However, a few issues:

1)Evasive creatures are hard countered by most of the roster
Almost every creature has an ability that bypasses evasion AND slows, rendering evasive creatures largely defenseless against practically anything. Given they’re already mostly countered by barriers, this seems like over compensating. While I think it’s good that some armored, shielded creatures can bypass evasion, I don’t think they all should as their basic attack. I’d say put vulnerability strike on them instead, particularly on the stegosaurs. They already slow, have armor and shields and a lot more HP than evasives, I don’t think they need to bypass evasion on their basic ability as well.

It wouldn’t be so bad if it was just tanky creatures that have these bypassing abilities, but it’s also high damage creatures like Tenonton rex, which can have a base damage of over 2000.

2)Ardentismaxima is way too powerful
With masses of health, armor, endless critical hits, high damage, armor and shield bypassing, evasion bypassing, slowing and invulnerability, Ardentismaxima is by far one of the most powerful creatures in the game.

The only reason it could need to be this strong is as a counter to the overpowered Thoradolosaur. Ardentismaxima can defeat anything in 2 shots, and anything it can’t, it will defeat in 3. It has no real counters except bleed and rend, both of which are highly clostly to the user. It can counter both of these just by swapping out, leaving it to reduce another creature to less than 50% hp in one shot regardless of the situation.

When combined with other high damage creatures, it leaves the unfortunate opponent with no way to win simply because the team is randomised. There are lots of ways this creature could be toned down, depending on what the emphasis of this creature should be. Whether it’s lower resistances, lower damage or some ability changes.

3)Thoradolosaur is too fast
The Thoradolosaur is an unstoppable force of high damage, shattering all defenses and instantly stunning anything that attempts to slow it. It’s role is clear. It is raw, devastating power. The problem is that is can have it’s speed upped to be faster than practically anything else. This wouldn’t be a problem, but it’s base damage is so high that it doesn’t need to boost that much. It also has one of the larger health pools, making it fairly resilient. This allows it to overcome pretty much all opponents through brute force if it is fast enough, at times defeating entire teams without even taking damage. Critical hits mean this creature can often defeat even high health creatures in 1 hit, as it crits often.

A lot of evasive creatures were previously immune to stuns and are no longer, making the Thor’s instant charge even more dangerous than it was previously.

I would recommend reducing the base speed of this creature, or replacing the instant charge with a different one. Or even both.

4)Trykosaurus is a bit TOO good now
As an armored creature that is also one of the highest damage dealers, the Trykosaurus has becoem a fairly essential pick now with defense shattering and slowing hits, as well as a distraction removal. There are essentially 2 counters for this: Bleed and speed. If you can shatter defenses and retain a speed advantage, you can counter this creature (such as the previously mentioned Ardentismaxima). Practically anything else is defeated by it.

My suggestion would be remove either cleanse distraction or bypass evasion and make one of those two things the counter. Given the armor, invulnerability and slowing, I’d say remove the cleanse distraction, as it’s other abilities already counter evasive creatures so it may as well keep that.

5) Formerly immune creatures are still incredibly powerful. In and of itself, this is not such a major issue, but the combination of them, like Ardentismaxima, magnapyritor and erlidominus together can be a bit extreme, as together they counter everything, can swap at will and have practically no vulnerabilities while also being very fast(With the exception of ardentismaxima).

Ardentis has already been addressed and erlidominus is only overpowered when it’s on a critical hit streak.
Magnapyritor is on it’s own counterable, unless it’s highly speed boosted, in which case it counters nearly everything. I’d suggest adding a lockdown effect to swapping in magnapyritor. It bypasses most abilities with most of it’s own, has high speed and high damage. It’s weakness is fairly low hp.

My recommendation would be to give it a lockdown effect for swap in, to give opponents an opportunity to exploit it’s own vulnerability, as it stands often it is deployed when someone swaps in, then the creature swapped in is locked down and has no way to counter the magnapyritor as it bypasses everything, but can freely swap out as soon as something fast and damaging enough is used.

Either that or tone down it’s utility a little by replacing one of the moves. Likely the nullifying impact as neither of its parents have any nullifying abilities. (just like monostegotops had their nullifying impact replaced).

In conclusion, some creatures have too much utility, or their stats are too high to warrant the utility without it unbalancing the game and for diverse strategies to be viable, these creatures should be toned down a bit. I think it’s good to have versatile creatures that fill many roles, but if their utility is TOO high, they dramatically reduce the number of viable stategies and it becomes “who has the faster/higher damage Thor and Ardentis combo” automatically determining the winner. Given that teams with an average level of about 23 can end up facing entire teams of level 30s, this is overly punishing of people who are not already at the top.

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I agree with all but 3. Thor actually had its speed nerfed in 2.0, so it’s already slower than it used to be. If even it can be boosted to be too fast, that’s more of a problem with boosts imo.

5 is also mixed. Some former immunes like Maxima are definitely very strong, but I haven’t noticed many others feeling too powerful.

Thor’s base speed was already severely nerfed, as was its moveset in general. If anything, it needs a buff. If a user chooses to boost its speed, they will pay dearly through suboptimal health and damage output.

I agree Ardentis is OP and the high prevalence of creatures with resilient moves is an issue.

Overall though, this patch has been fantastic!

Thor’s problem IS boosts, you’re right there, but the problem is boost rules are universal, and Thor is exceptionally benefiting from boosts because it already has moderate health and high damage. I’ve faced Thors with 3000 base damage and that’s not nearly so much of a problem as a Thor that’s faster than the rest of the roster. Raw damage output can counter distraction if you’re fast enough. Instant distraction isn’t going to help at all if Thor is faster than you.

  1. is less of an issue with a single high resistance creature, but more the combination of boosted ones. Each of them have counters, the problem is something like a fast magnapyritor can be pulled out second or third and hard counters entire teams because the heavy hitter was already defeated or weakened in a previous fight.

It’s very difficult to build a reliable team that can take down multiple highly resistant creatures. Perhaps the rest of them will be less of a problem if Ardentismaxima is toned down. generally I’m finding magnapyritor is particularly powerful, but not generally impossible on its own. Just in combination.

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I honestly think to give Evasive creatures a better chance here, many of them should have either Definite Rampage or Defense Shattering Rampage AND a decent resistance to speed debuffs.

I think it really is just boosts. Yes those monster boosted Thors are bad, but pretty much any high-tier dino becomes a monster when boosted that far. Imagine if those same speed boosts were given to Tenontorex, which has higher attack, health, and speed than Thor, in addition to resilient strike, disracting impact, and defense shattering rampage (which Thor lost). Even your own example of how strong boosted Magnapyritor is demonstrates this. You are absolutely right that boost rules are universal. But if the common denominator here is the boosts, I would point the finger at them first before any particular creature.

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Facing a max boosted anything, let alone a max boosted thor is going to be challenging. With thor’s base speed in mind, boost your speedsters to at least 147 speed to avoid issues are field decelerating creatures. Thor actually needs a buff

I completely agree, but since boosts are something that can be purchased, changing them is a lot harder, since that’s where the money is. While it is the problem, I’ve pretty much given up on the idea of seeing it resolved, so I try and come up with non commercialised solutions because I don’t see the boosts changing easily.

They could put some harder caps on stats perhaps like a maximum range from the base, or something similar. I think there’s a bunch of very useful creatures that are currently only viable with boosts, but once boosted are highly effective team members, whereas some others are just monstrous when boosted. Perhaps they need to cap boosts based on overall stat pool, so creatures that don’t have such high base stats can be boosted further than ones that already have high pools.

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Yeah, completely agree with this one. I too have pretty much accepted those massively boosted creatures as a fact of life. I like the idea of stat caps. It could potentially create its own issues, but its better than thors with speeds over 140. Unfortunately, I don’t really see any other way to deal with boosts besides removing them, which they shouldn’t do with the vast amounts of real money people have spent on them.

That said, I’ve gone unboosted in 2.0 so far, and my rank hasn’t changed from what it was before the update. I think I even set a new high. So it is possible to counter these monsters, but it’s way more annoying than it should be (or just expensive, if you want to boost up your own team).

I think that would return us to the OP indoraptor problem. I think generally the evasive creature ability sets are pretty good, the problem is evasion itself is pointless. I think nearly every creature in my team pool now bypasses evasion except maybe one or two, and I only replaced one creature since the update. I think 4 of my team gained an evasion counter they didn’t previously have. Only 3 don’t have one at all, and some of those are creatures I’ll likely replace when I’ve upgraded their replacements.

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I mean, as far as the Indoraptors go, just restrict the buff to Gen 1 rather than Gen 2, to avoid that issue.

What if instead of a hard cap, boosts gave diminishing stat returns the more that are already applied to a creature? So your first stat boost would increase that stat a lot, but the tenth would hardly change it at all. The benefits of this are:

  1. You can still min/max stats to customize creatures
  2. Less investment in each creature means that it’s easier to swap out dinos on your team, especially as you level up and unlock new creatures
  3. Dinos can’t have stats too far from their base design
  4. It levels the playing field between big spenders and free to play players, because a highly boosted and a barely boosted creature aren’t significantly different.

But there are also some drawbacks…

  1. It is easier to just boost all a creatures stats across the board to a decent level, so things just level up linearly instead of having to min/max to make one particular stat better. This is probably the biggest issue from a gameplay perspective.
  2. People may be less inclined to spend money on boosts. This is probably what Ludias biggest issue with this would be from a financial perspective.

So it would probably never happen, but it could be an interesting way of further limiting boosts.

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I mean I think it would create the same problem but with different creatures. Very fast creatures that bypass all defenses with high damage attacks are a problem. I think the solution is to make evasion itself more viable

So similar to the old boost system, but in reverse. Instead of just upping the cost, it reduces the effectiveness.

It has potential. But yeah, the drawbacks probably make it unattractive to marketing. Perhaps some sort of combination of stat pool and diminishing returns. Or perhaps the more you boost one stat, the less you can boost overall.

I think there’s lots of ways to address it, I just don’t think they will. They could surprise us like they did with this update though.

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Yeah I originally pictured it as each stat being tracked separately, but counting all stats together really is the only way of keeping stat boosts from just being distributed evenly. They would have to let you edit what order boosts are applied so that you can choose which ones have the strongest effects. But this might bring it too close to the current system- just have the speed boosts apply first to get the most out of them. I think it’s worth further workshopping though. Now if only we could find a way to monetize it better…

I hope they come back to boosts one day. But as you’ve pointed out in this post, there’s other things they should look at too, perhaps before they tackle the demon that is the boost system.

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Good DoT uniques and Mortem Rex will solve current Tryko and Ardentist issue.

Ardentis will just swap out

An on escape move can be added.

That won’t do anything against it’s health pool

It tweaks players’ calculation. The next dino would probably take a big hit.
Or give a bleeder no-escape, a bit OP I guess.