Ludia Forums

Give Smilonemys her damage back

It’s been a very short time since the start of the 1.9 meta, and for some reason, despite nearly no one using it yet, Smilonemys got a harsh nerf.

From 4500 HP -> 3990 HP (-11.3% nerf), and from 1500 damage to 1200 damage (-20% nerf) are massive nerfs. While Smilonemys was probably somewhat overpowered, thanks to how hard Carbon was to find, it’s not possible to exactly tell how overpowered it was in the arena (since very few people have it).

But a cursory comparison to Tryko (another 3-Epic Unique) shows that it wasn’t that overpowered. Although it had much more Armour, you have to account for the fact that Armour is less useful in the upper arenas (where creatures who have Armour Piercing in some variant or another dominate), so, while Smilon probably has more effective health, it probably doesn’t have 40% more effective health (30% armour means non-AP attacks deal 70% damage, x health/0.7 damage = 1.42x effective health, 50% armour means non-AP attacks deal 50% damage, x health/0.5 damage = 2x effective health, 2x/1.42x = 1.4 times more effective health). Thus, the only major stat where it clearly has a major advantage over Tryko is in Speed; while it also has an advantage in effective HP, it’s not as clear how big that advantage is.

(Also, I’m not above pointing out that 127 speed still makes one slower than most of the high-speed Uniques, i.e. Indoraptor, Erlidom, Dilorach, Erlikospyx, Pterovexus, Orion. Also Stigydaryx, but no one currently worries about her lol. Not saying 127 speed is useless, outspeeding Gemini and Utarinex is definitely useful, but in terms of “outspeeding threatening creatures” it’s definitely not as useful as it might seem at first glance)

Smilon also lacks Defense Shattering abilities, and any Instant damage-reducing abilities (a la Instant Distraction, Instant Invincibility). In exchange, it gets Long Defense Strike, which is useful, but in the presence of Tryko, Thor, Dioraja, Magna etc etc is not as useful as it might seem. Precise Pounce is also neat, but can’t bypass shields or remove Evasive, which means it can only hurt Erlidom/Indoraptors for that one turn, and also has to deal with the Shields and Armour of tanks. Deliberate Prowl is…okay but not exactly overpowered (as of now, the 1.9 update, that is); Rampage and Run is something similar.

Thus, pre-nerf Smilon is probably slightly better than Tryko stat-wise, and on par ability wise, or maybe even worse due to the lack of reliable damage output. It probably would’ve been about right had only its health been nerfed.

Which brings me to my final point.

Regarding Smilon’s damage, pre nerf, Smilon was one of a very limited number of upper-arena creatures who could reliably one-shot Dracocera on turn 1 (preventing it from Regenerating and swapping out to come back in again later). Along with creatures who have Pinning Strike, these are the only creatures who can reliably check Dracocera in the current meta, and there’s only 3 of them without Smilon. Given that Dracocera seems pretty overpowered, especially relative to its “fundamentals” (i.e. being a highly accessible Legendary and first-level hybrid rather than a superhybrid), completely removing a formerly-reliable check to Dracocera seems like a bad idea.

Thus, I’m strongly in favour of buffing Smilon’s damage back to its old level of 1500, even if that means losing an extra (small) amount of health (maybe to 3800 health?). Especially since Smilon, pre-nerf, hadn’t even gotten properly integrated into the meta due to the rarity of Carbonemys, so a lot of peoples’ experience with it comes from level 72 of the Campaign, which is not exactly a representative experience (given how it was boosted to tier 8). With that in mind, it’s very hard to definitively say that Smilon was that overwhelmingly overpowered, especially when compared to creatures of similarly rare ingredients (if anything, the Tryko analysis is a tad unfair given that none of Tryko’s ingredients are Park-daytime-only [i.e. Carbo] or Incubator-exclusive [i.e. Pachy])

Should Smilonemys be de-nerfed?

  • Yes
  • No, but buff it elsewhere to compensate
  • No

0 voters

3 Likes

I would like to point out that you say Precise Pounce doesn’t bypass Evasive when it actually does, it doesn’t get rid of it, but it does hit through it.

2 Likes

Whoops, what I meant is that it doesn’t remove Evasive.

3 Likes

Give park spawns back xd

6 Likes

Why they even nerfed it is beyond me. Its ultra rare artificially so compared to pre-1.9 park spawns. Its a 3 epic hybrid of which 1 is arena only, 1 is a park spawn and the last is a Monday spawn. You need to play the game for.many hours in parks and almost the whole day on Monday plus do 100s of arena battles to get enough DNA to make it. Look at the apex tier dinos. The easiest is like DracoRat and Thora. Both have easy to.find ingredients of the common variety. Throwing Common scents in Local 2 and 3.gets you enough DNA to make both.Then Sino has been puked out to death the past 9 months.

Its one.of the hardest dinos.to make already given Ludia’s aversion to easy money aka park spawns being attracted by scents.

Oh and 1 more thing. The rarest ingredient needs to be at lvl 20 and has another hybrid.

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To me he was OP before … You see his speed with that much armor and then high damage. How it all make sense?

Now he is good enough.

3 Likes

Smilonemys was a very OP dino, so I will say no.

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Hmm…how it all make sense? You either didn’t read my analysis above or didn’t respond to it, so TL;DR: Armour isn’t as useful as you seem to think, its damage is lower than the other 3-Epic Unique, Tryko, and even its speed isn’t as overpowered as it might seem at first glance, given how most of the speedy Uniques are faster than it.

Additionally, most of Smilon’s abilities aren’t as useful as Tryko’s due to the lack of reliable damage output (when facing Armour and/or Shields).

Not to mention, Smilon should be more powerful than Tryko given how damned hard it is to create and level, with one of its ingredients being an Arena exclusive Epic, and another being a Park-daytime-only Epic.

You need to compare creatures of roughly equal accessibility to see if they’re “OP”. Comparing Smilon to Tryko gives the closest possible analysis in 1.9, and you can tell that even pre-nerf it wasn’t extremely “OP” compared to Tryko (due to its less useful abilities, and stats distributed in a not-entirely optimal manner).

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Wait til you see it tier 8 in the arena, then you’re gonna beg for a nerf.

3 Likes

How, exactly, was Smilon OP?

As a highly inaccessible 3-Epic Unique, it should be somewhat more powerful than the typical Unique. And buffing its damage back to its old levels whilst keeping its health the same wouldn’t make it too OP; the presence of Armoured/Shield/Defense Shattering creatures would keep it in check.

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I’m…not sure what your argument is here. If I see a tier 8 Smilon, I’ll (probably) have some tier 8 creatures of my own, and I’ll be able to defeat it then. Just off the top of my head, Ardentis and Gemini could probably hold it off with their Shields and Nullifying/Definite damage; Dio can distract, Shield and Superiority Strike to annoy it (plus Precise Counter to go through Prowl), Grypo could probably stall Smilon to death, etc.

Or are you talking about facing a tier 8 Smilon with no equally-boosted creatures of my own? If that’s the case, then firstly the problem is with the matchmaking, not the creature, secondly, then shouldn’t the response be “I need to get equally boosted creatures of my own”?

As far as I can tell, even pre nerf Smilon wasn’t extremely overpowered, post nerf, if anything Smilon is underpowered due to how difficult it is to create. Nerfing Smilon’s health whilst keeping its damage seems like a pretty reasonable compromise to me, especially when it hasn’t even been adopted by a significant proportion of the endgame meta yet… With most people having never even fought against Smilon or used one, how can one definitely tell whether it’s overpowered or not? Even my analysis comparing it to Tryko is just an informed guess

1 Like

You really should take into account that Smilonemys is super fast (which by the way doesn’t make ANY sense because it has really heavy armour) and has stun in swap in ability. You can’t apply damage over time because it has one cleansing move.

The armour is extremely useful against other fast unique dinos. I couldn’t complete the campaign because of that one dino for days so I will stick to my original post and say NO to buffing it again.

1 Like

What cainshiro says.
It still has a very decent kit, it’s highly wanted and everyone in my alliance is trying to make it.

2 Likes

All ludia did was nerf it in advance because they knew most of the members will be crying for a nerf of it one day…

Here is how I’d change Nemys

Stats
Hp:3850
Atk:1500
Speed:127
Armor:50%
Crit:5%

Abilities
Nullifying strike- it trades ridiculous defensive power for more offense.
Precise pounce
Deliberate prowl
Strike and Run

When @Artemis_Pilly is keep saying that its still slower than most faster uniques … Have you realised that those faster uniques don’t have armor/shield piercing move and they don’t even have 5% armor let alone 50% armor?

Just compare with Indoraptor, magna, utranix with similar speed than smilon and they don’t have any armor. They can’t even beat him (or at-least easily) on same level at-least.

I applause Ludia to MAKE IT BALANCED before everyone invest too much into it.

3 Likes

Not every counter to a unique needs to be a unique. In a one on one battle, smilon gets beat by indo g2, an equally, if not harder creature to make. And unless you bet on prowl, and it actually works, regular indo can still beat it. Yes, many would cry for a nerf when they don’t have one of their own or a counter to it. But what is the state of the game when we cry for a nerf on things that we can’t accurately gauge their power?

Smilon is supposed to be a rat killer. If it can’t do that turn one like its predecessor, it fails. I’d say keep the health nerf, but bring damage back.

3 Likes

Smilonemys was completely and utterly broken when it was first introduced. They changed it to be strong, but still balanced. It should definitely not be reverted.

3 Likes

Yes, yes, yes, YES! A THOUSAND TIMES YES! Thank you so much for making this post. Smilonemys absolutely needs the previous damage back. I don’t feel the slightest bit inclined to going through such a huge grind to get a creature with this level of strength. The HP nerf was ok, I think that would have been a problem. But I say the damage is necessary. I’m all for 1500 damage. No question about it. It will have counters, it won’t be OP. Tryko, Dio, Grypo will be able to defeat it. That armor is not as good as everybody thinks.

The fact that they don’t have armor is irrelevant, they have other things that make them strong. And utasino has some armor and a whole lot of utility. It also doesn’t mather that some of them can’t beat them(Indo and Indo g2 can), Slimonemys has a good amount of counters even with it’s damage back. And having enough counters is enough for it not being OP.