# Hold on, has no one done the math: Stat Boosts 2.0

This is for your information, it is not meant to agree or disagree with the change but I do comment my thoughts on the different aspects of the change.

Based on that chart, I was in a conversation with another user and they said we may even get more boosts for less. It sat odd with me, so I did the math. I am surprised at what I found and invite anyone to try correct this if I am wrong. If I am right, this is bad news and good news indeed for all players except the top players, its mainly good news for top players.

First, we have to draw a comparison. Many have stated and found that under the old system 7-7-7 was a typical boosted level for a dino. Some went over, some went under, but as an average most people seem to agree with this number. Per the chart above, tier 7â€™s gain is 7% under the tier 10 gain. So lets look at 3 possibilities for 7-7-7 equivalent gains in tiers for your dino under the new system, the stat boost cost of doing so, and the time it will take to achieve this with the information we have.

We will use 17-7-0, 12-12-0, and 7-7-7 still. 17-7-0 is a 7.5% reduction from 20-10-0. 12-12-0 is a 7.5% reduction from 15-15-0. 7-7-7 is a 7.5% reduction from 10-10-10. So these are all equivalent to the old systems 7-7-7 by using a 7 (7.5 makes this a bit easier to see on the chart) percent reduction from the possible max gain.

The following shows what the stat boost cost was of a 7-7-7 dino vs the stat boost cost now in the new system.

A 7-7-7 under the old system would cost per dino 254 per stat * 3 = 762 total boosts.

A 7-7-7 on the new system cost 700 per stat * 3 = 2100.

A 12-12-0 on the new system cost 1200 per stat * 2 = 2400.

A 17-7-0 on the new system cost 1700 + 700 = 2400.

Per dino to reach the 7-7-7 equivalent at 7-7-7 now, we pay 2100 - 762 = 1338 more in stat boosts.

Per dino to reach the 7-7-7 equivalent at 12-12-0, we pay 2400 - 762 = 1638 more in stat boosts.

Per dino to reach the 7-7-7 equivalent at 17-7-0, we pay 2400 - 762 = 1638 more in stat boosts.

762 * 8 = 6096 for an 8 team 7-7-7

On the average of the 3 examples (2100, 2400, and 2400) we are paying 2300 * 8 18400 for an 8 team at the 7-7-7 equivalent.

We are paying 12304 more stat boosts per an 8 team or 1538 per dino for 7-7-7.

Someone will then say, yeah, but we get more stat boosts. Fair enough, lets look at that too.

I am going to use Aviaryâ€™s / Lockwood Estateâ€™s +4 here, and yes that does skew the results a bit because as a player gains trophies they may be getting +1, +2, or +3 on their rise to 4000. But accounting for the increase over time is more than I care to do right now and most people are trying to max dinos you would get around this time in the game anyway like the uniques.

If using the old system we could get +4 * 3 in Aviary * 7 days and + 25 on a strike event that is ((4 * 3) * 7) + 25 = 109 per week. 762 / 109 = 6.99 (round to 7) weeks to 7-7-7 one dino f2p. So one dino would take roughy 7 weeks to 7-7-7 only spending boost on that dino and no other.

We are told we will get about 100 stat boosts per week now per Jorgeâ€™s post about stat boost 2.0. We still get 84 from battle incubators in Aviary + 25 for a strike event + 7 for 15 minute incubators = 116 per week. Not a big difference. Remember 2300 is the average new cost to get a 7-7-7 equivalent dino now. 2300 / 116 = 19.82 (roughly 20) weeks to achieve the equivalent of 7-7-7 that used to take 7 weeks.

This shows one thing. There is absolutely a loss in value and a loss in time to achieve what was considered to be the average level of boosting prior to the new system.

But there is a bit of good news. The maxed boosts of 10-10-10 has its equivalents of 10-10-10 still, 15-15-0, and 20-10-0.

In these cases, the total costs are:

Old system 10-10-10 @ 2046 per stat = 6138 for a maxed dino over 56.3 weeks.

New system 10-10-10 @ 1000 per stat = 3000 for a maxed dino over 25 weeks.

New system 15-15-0 @ 1500 per stat = 3000 for a maxed dino over 25 weeks.

New system 20-10-0 @ 2000 and 1000 = 3000 for a maxed dino over 25 weeks.

This shows one thing. There is absolutely a return in value and a gain in time to achieve what is a max level dino in the new system. ***As Aplier has pointed out in the comments below, any value would be heavily skewed towards maxing though, and using the numbers below, how many people are actually going to max to retrieve any of that value.

The difference in time to max a dino has been reduced by 56.3 - 25 = 31.4 weeks.

The difference in time to 7-7-7 a dino has been increased by 20 - 7 = 13 weeks.

Which of those numbers seems more enticing? Waiting a few months to level up your dinos and getting 7-7-7 or adding an additional 31.4 weeks to the time of going the last 3 tiers? Viewed this way, the new system looks better.

If you plan on never maxing then you have lost value. If you plan on maxing, you have lost no value and have gained some time.

No one is correct though is saying you have not lost value. In the immediate sense, you did lose value. In the end game sense though, you have gained time at the same boost value prior to the new system.

Plan and simple, any value you have lost by buying or winning stat boosts in the old system is gained back the more you play and the closer you get towards maxing.

Also, in the process of maxing, you net an additional (old max amount )6138 - (new max amount)3000 = 3138 stat boost points over that 25 week period. But, this applies per dino, not per global stat increases. That means if you add stats to differing dinos, it will take a lot longer to see the benefit of maxing vs putting all stats on one dino at a time until its maxed.

But the overall difference is 49104 stat boosts for 8 maxed dinos on the old system vs 24000 for 8 maxed dinos on the new system. That is a massive savings of 25104, which is enough to max another 8 dinos. You get 16 maxed dinos on the new system for the cost of 8 on the old system.

The time saved is (and this is really not obtainable) 49104 / 109 = 450.49 weeks (or roughly 8 years) for an 8 team max on the old system vs 24000 / 116 = 206.89 weeks (or roughly 4 years) = 4 years difference. Assuming you did play this long, you could get double the dinos maxed in the same amount of time as the old system.

That last stat though, it shows that maxing is something that takes a lot of time even on the new system. While the end game is better, can you really see yourself playing this game everyday for the next 4 years to achieve an 8 dino team max? Many of us are of course not going to take that long as we already have boosts and many of us pay for more boostsâ€¦all of these numbers so far have all been about f2p . Since the paid boosts are not always the same each week, it makes it harder to determine just how much time that would shave off, but lets say its roughly 150 extra per week. That is greater than the current amount of 116. Also, there may be other stat rewards coming that lessen this time even more. But, it does put at minimum right now, an 8 dino maxed team at 2 years away starting from getting uniques in Aviary and maxing them even buying all the stats.

So, with the maxing taking so long and the current system being geared towards the maxing to get the most valueâ€¦is this a good change? The numbers say it will quicken the process, but that process is still a very long process. Being that many people will drop out by then, they lose the valueâ€¦especially those that paid money.

Soâ€¦knowing this. Seeing it writtenâ€¦what do you do? We did lose value on previous boosts. Denying it while looking at the numbers isâ€¦wellâ€¦denial. There are many falsities swirling around that we are getting so much more boosts now. 109 vs 116 does not really seem like a enough to cover the loss. I keep hearing how its better because now it will not take as long to max in the top player arenas. But does that really help the majority of players? Does that even really help those in the 5000 range? I hear that this will make it so that people have to grind instead spending money on stat boostsâ€¦but if I buy stat boosts over a 2 year period my dinos will likely be maxed and close to the highest levels so that still puts boosts as being very important and paying is still doubling that advantage, though admittedly with less of a gain then they were getting.

The pros are easy to see, but hard to apply. That is a lot time to max and maxing is how you get the most value or recover the value you lost. It does take less time though than the old system and less boosts to max. It is harder to get stuck behind a massive power difference at higher tier levels because the differences are smaller.

The cons are easy to see and easy to get frustrated overâ€¦the immediate value is gone and unless I spend the next years of my life playing, it does not come back. The journey from new player to 7-7-7 is increased.

This hurts new players some. This hurts the middle players more. This helps top players the most. At the same time, if you plan on maxing this helps you a great dealâ€¦but you have to remember the time it will take is more than many are going to give.

Ultimately, I feel like it is not breaking the game.

So take it how you want. The truth is this is both good and bad and it really depends on the actions you take that make sway one way or the other.

I am still playing. Even if I lose some value, meh. Its still a fun game. Maybe I will play another few years and have a maxed team. Maybe alien dinosaurs land on Earth in that amount of time and start start playing JWA: Human Edition IRL.

The numbers I gave of course are estimates in some cases and have some margins of error, but this took hours. I hope it helps some people see this is not bad, but also I hope it helps others see this is not great either.

Ohâ€¦I need more people in my alliance too. TerraRising. I know, a shameless plug at the end.

20 Likes

https://forum.ludia.com/t/broken-systems-and-shoddy-compensation-math/107412/18

I too have done the math, and came to what is basically the same conclusion. A fully 10/10/10 was never a reasonable goal, for anyone, with T9/T10 giving 4% more boost while increasing the cost of the overall system by 4x as much, meant that the vast majority of players would never have paid into it. Except now, because of ludia rebalancing the entirety of boosts around the existence of those tiers, at prices no reasonable player would ever pay, weâ€™re now stuck paying that 4x the cost for 4% more boost, but spread out over every boost purchase instead of loaded into a top-end we could willingly avoid.

By my numbers, with various lines of reasoning given in the thread, T8 is the power level they should have built the new system around: 46% boost for 510 points, or about 11 points per 1 %, for 550 points per 50%. Round that up to 600 and youâ€™ve got each boost tier costing 30 points. If we drop the thought of tiers for a hot second, just looking at the system in terms of % boosts per cost, that rate of 2.5%/30 is still slower (more expensive) than the old system at every point up until the last 47.5% and 50%.

And with a cap on dino boosts now, that last 4% old (5% new) both is not significantly stronger (1.5/1.45=~1.035, or 3.5% more net stat for those last two ranks), and now has a specific trade-off cost of 5%/4 speed elsewhere. It no longer has any reason to be any more expensive than any other boost, so itâ€™s cost doesnâ€™t deserve to be tied to an old system where there was no trade-off to those last 4% and only a massively inflated cost to artificially prolong the concept of â€śmaxingâ€ť a dino.

Now a dino can be maxed at 10/10/10 as a stat line, thatâ€™s 25%/25%/20 speed, for 3000 points. A 5/5/6 dino in the old system was 30%/30%/26 speed, for ~250 points, for stronger overall than a maxed dino would be today. Thatâ€™s a couple weeks to reach and bypass the new systemâ€™s max boost, compared to nearly half a year. That is not at all a â€śabsolutely a return in value and gain in timeâ€ť. Even a 15/15/0 dino is only 37.5%/37.5%/0, and thatâ€™s just old 6/6/0 for also ~250 points. To reiterate, there is no such thing as an old 7/7/7 boosts equivalent in this new system, that level of gain is simply impossible.

An 8/5/0 (46%/30%/0) would be the closest equivalent to a focused dino in this current system, 18/12/0 (45%/30%/0), costing 572 points compared to 3000 points. In the new system you canâ€™t even max 2 stats, so you canâ€™t reasonably base total cost on a system where you could max all 3 stats, Even an old 10/5/0 (50%/30%/0) maxes one stat and is slightly above new system, costing 2110 in that old system, and 3000 in this new one. There is simply no world in which anywhere close to a reasonable power/cost ratio to the old system exists at a boost cost of 2.5%/100 points.

â€śMaxingâ€ť a dino in terms of tiers is not what needs to be compared here. But rather the maxing of a dino in terms of power gain/point cost, and that point cost/time. And with this new system, a max dino isnâ€™t one that is at itâ€™s absolute best power and will never need to be changed, effectively ending all possible content growth on that dino (hence why an artificially high cap needed to exist, so that no one would ever be â€śdoneâ€ť with the boost part of the game). Being â€śdoneâ€ť with boosting your main team to their max stats means that you can then start boosting backline dinos to have some alternative dinos at team power to shake up the gameplay once in a while (instead of having an insanely overboosted 10/10/10 that you would never take off of your team). Or with a maxed main team, you can then start putting points towards respecs, tweaking their stats here and there (maybe your thor would do better with 7.5% less attack but 6 more speed, based on speeds of other dinos youâ€™re seeing), and not having to feel guilty about â€śwastingâ€ť boosts on respec because there is no unreachable carrot at the end of a stick for you to chase after.

Even at a cost of 2.5%/30 points, at the rate Ludia releases or buffs new dinos (at letâ€™s say 3-4 new entering high apex/tyrant tier dinos every 3 months), you still wouldnâ€™t earn enough F2P boost points to max them all upon release. Or just barely be able to max them via respecs off of dinos on your main team, thus negating that entire 3 month cycle worth of potentially â€śpermanentâ€ť boost point gain. At the cost of 2.5%/100 points, you can only earn enough points between each major patch to get ONE dino up to HALF of max. It doesnâ€™t in any way keep up even with the rate of growth of the game.

For just those ~25,000 boost points you say we save to max a team to, notably, even worse stats than a dino with one T10 plus 100 more points (2100 total) in the old system. We could have taken that and boosted EVERY SINGLE DINO in the game to a net power level that is higher than todayâ€™s max boosts. But by todayâ€™s math, as you so kindly let us know, we can now boost a whole 8 more dinos to a very significantly lower â€śmaxâ€ť than we could before. yay.

8 Likes

The only problem with that way of thinking, though, is that even if we completely ignore the existence of boosts 1.1., the rate of boost growth in this new system doesnâ€™t even come close to keeping up with the rate of new content in the game. Taking ~6 months to max one dino, 3-4 years to max a team, that will have seen at ~15 new major content that patches that completely shake up the meta throughout that time. Itâ€™s simply not reasonable.

And to rebuttal â€śeasily winning battlesâ€ť, over time a player settles into a place where they win ~50% of battles. If they are winning more, they continue to rise up in rank and fight harder and harder enemies, until they start losing again. If theyâ€™re getting those â€śeasy winsâ€ť then that just pushes them towards that 50/50 point faster.

Yes the rate of growth in that regards was a bit out of hand with 30% more power to both stats, plus more speed being heavily frontloaded (for a significantly more than 30% overall stronger dino) and costing only about 2 weeks worth of farming. But that doesnâ€™t make the new system any better at solving this. 1 set of 2.5%/2.5%/2 more stats to one dino, every ~3 weeks, is just hilariously slow, and quite frankly, an insult to the playerâ€™s investment required to earn it.

4 Likes

And to further make a point in that regard, with the example numbers used in the dev 2.0 boost post, saying that a player who used to have 500 boost points per stat got those multiplied by 1.5 in the refund, for a new total of 750! Yay more boosts! Those 500 points were enough to fully T5 every dino on the team (62x8=496), thatâ€™s 30% more btw. 750 points now isnâ€™t even even enough to get every dino on the team up t1, from 30% down to not even 2.5%. Or if those boosts were all focused into dino stat, itâ€™s still not even 20% to one stat for one dino. Please try to justify any argument about how that is a valid and reasonable exchange rate that we shouldnâ€™t feel outraged about.

As of right for new progress, 15 minute incubators give 1 point each, and based on the rate your incubators fill up your slot and how often you get 15 mins, youâ€™re looking at maybe 2 per day. Itâ€™s again, nowhere near enough to make for the absolutely insane increase in cost compared to what any player that wasnâ€™t infinitely rich to buy every boost sale was going to ever reach in the old system.

3 Likes

Having a value where people can reasonably reach that cap (at my suggested 2.5%/30 cost thatâ€™s about 1 year in F2P at high arena levels, doing every single daily incubator/keeping battle incs running for maximum 15 mins/every weekly stat strike) means that players both have a goal that is in sight that theyâ€™d be willing to shell out money to reach faster. And that after reaching that goal, they can much more freely make adjustments to their team to shake up their gameplay and keep things interesting without having to lose out on net boost power. If you had an 8/8/8 tyrant dino in the old system, or just 7/7/7 all around, thereâ€™s no way in heck youâ€™d take those off the team for a heavily underboosted, underleveled dino just to try it out and see how it does. Being able to actually reach the cap, and then still have a way to put new dinos on your team without hurting the teamâ€™s overall power, is far, far healthier and enjoyable for the average personâ€™s gameplay, and makes them more likely to want to bother chasing after boosts.

As you say, it takes 2 months worth of farming to swap out a 6/6/6 dino from your team for a new one, with refunds. But that completely negates your teamâ€™s net growth in boost power over those past 2 months. And thatâ€™s not even for a max boosted dino. Being able to change out only 1 dino from your team at every 3 month content patch, or have net negative boost point gain over those 3 months, is just not a good system. If players thought that switching out a dino without hurting the team was hard before, it is impossible now with boosts 2.0.

And the new total boost cost puts ludia in a massive bind with selling boosts. If they sell for more than 37.5 points/500 HC, then theyâ€™re devaluing the purchases that everyone made before the system change (even up to the week/days before the boost 2.0 came out), and believe me players will be calling fraud and scam. But if they sell for less that 37.5 points/500 HC, thatâ€™s ~\$15 usd for one single 2.5% increase to one dino. Thatâ€™s about half a % of overall net power gain to a playerâ€™s team, before accounting for diminishing returns. I donâ€™t think I need to further justify how ridiculous that pricing scale would be. Itâ€™s simply a lose/lose situation for them with selling boosts at the absurd system of 2.5%/100 points.

2 Likes

At that point itâ€™s just Ludia directly, purposely making bad-practice design decisions to manipulate their entire playerbase to artifically slow down progress, which they do already to push people towardâ€™s the store.

And so let me bring up this, letâ€™s look at a cost \$30 usd to speed up a 4 year (~200 week) grind by less than 1 week (which is, by the way, the cost that all boosts purchased up to this point is now worth, if buying the best deal of \$100 at a time, and after the x1.5 adjustment). Thatâ€™s \$30 for one set of 2.5%/2.5%/2 stat boosts to one dino. \$40 for just one 5%/5%/0 that is equivalent to one level up before diminishing returns. Do you think that any casual players would buy into that value? How many whales do you think would leave this game for one that is less of an absurd price gouge? The handful of people pushing to be the very best bought into boosts to maintain that slight edge over the competition. The rest of the casual playerbase that bought into boosts did so cause even 5 bucks was enough to take a dino from +0% to +18% in one stat, not from +0% to 1/3rd of the way towards to +2.5%.

If ludiaâ€™s goal with the boost system was to make money (which, given everything theyâ€™ve done as a company, I think it is universally accepted that is their goal with everything they do), starting out with these rates instead of pulling the massive the bait&switch would not have earned them jack squat. And I think that speaks volumes as to their ethics, values, and design foresight/purposeful manipulation.

Edit: Do I acknowledge their terms of service say that they are legally allowed to that? Yes. Do I accept that actually doing so to such massive degree that they have is it at all ethical or responsible to the customers who support them? Noooope.

10 Likes

There dollar sign section is there justify reasonable hypothesis and provide supporting evidence towars the last point. That ludia is fully aware that the current boost system is not tenable, and would never have been released in this state.

At the very top end of gameplay, it will always flatten out to an extent. But even if everyone has their dinos max boosted, there will still always be updates that change the state of the game. Or overall shifts in boost meta (for 2 more speed you can outspeed everyone with that dino at your current tier, then for 4 more speed they can now outspeed all of you). Or overall changes in dino meta (start seeing more tanks show up than last week? bring out your chompies and bleeders). Or simply having the freedom to make changes to the dinos you love (make a tanky indo g2 build, next month play with it as a speedster). Without having to give up on your maximum team potential to do so.

The relative rate of progress may be faster initially, but having a cap that is actually reasonably reachable, and then allows for customization does a far better job of keeping the game new and fresh even after the point of â€śflattening outâ€ť. Without putting the strain on ludia to constantly come up with new designs, new stat distributions, and putting out big power creep with every patch. With the cap that is unreachable, we run into the same problem as the old system, where when the game even starts to flatten out at mid-high levels, youâ€™ll generally stick with your boosted set of most powerful dinos, because to switch away from them becomes a significant loss in team power that would have to be offset (e.g. make it worth switching away) by ludia introducing an greater amount of power creep with each patch.

You talk about ignoring the old boost system. The old boost systemâ€™s selling point and gameplay design goal was simple power. Everything could get massively boosted in every stat, with significant frontloading, at no opportunity cost. The new boost systemâ€™s selling point and gameplay design goal is customization. You have the ability to push your dinoâ€™s stats in new directions, in a way that makes them unique, yours. Itâ€™s no longer a game of "oh, everyone boosted every dino to 5/5/5, or 7/7/7, and nothing relative has changed. Creating unique builds that shore up weaknesses or capitalize on strengths, because you have to choose one or the other is what makes this type of system fun and engaging. Except when the rate of progress is so absurdly slow, and to make any changes to those customization sets you back so far, that the only thing you ever get to do with the system built to show off and provide sideways forms of progression. Is to progress forward, to only ever get stronger, instead of get different.

4 Likes

Letâ€™s say that through all of ludiaâ€™s newly released dinos, all of their ups and downs of buffs and nerfs, that you managed to stick with the exact same team of dinos throughout that entire year (which if that doesnâ€™t sound like an insanely boring lack of development or gameplay variety, idk what does). That team now averages 3/3/3 boosts, if you kept up with every single farming method (which is about 10-15 battles per day to keep battle incubators rolling at all times, since the 15 min ones give out boosts too).

So letâ€™s say youâ€™re focusing it all into one dino at a time, so now at 24 points each. Well those dinos are now never leaving your team, since there will clearly exist weaker, unboosted options to pull off the team to make space for new arrivials instead. Given that a solid 4 months of farming has gone into each of them, and to get your other 5 team slots up to that level would take another 20 months before youâ€™d have to give up a boosted dino to make way for a new one, youâ€™re now looking at almost 3 years with a team that is growing ever more unchangeable. And when you finally do max it out (which after 3 years of playing hard every day will likely be at least high 20â€™s if not 30). If you want to fit a new arrival into the team, youâ€™d have to give up 37.5% of boosts worth of power in that team slot, or a value that takes 3 months to replace, on top of any lower levels worth of worse stats if it happens to be a new dino to the game. That means to make it worth changing up your team, by more than just 1 dino every 3 months, or same dino but 1 stat re-allocation, ludia has to create enough power creep to outweigh that cost.

To me, the absolute staleness of having the ever-more-constant team composition, is far more unfun than the relative staleness of everything being boosted to as many stats as it can have, but with the far greater freedom to customize and re-assess both your dino lineup or individual stat spreads within that limit. And again, that I believe to be a much healthier way to present a customization-focused boost system rather than keeping it as the same carrot-on-a-stick out of reach power growth as the old one.

Edit: and to add on to that, in either 2.5%/cost growth rate, you will be at points along the way where nothing is better than your current lineup, and you have X heavily boosted dinos that you are definitely not replacing. For each system you will spend the same total % of time at that point, up until every is capped, whether thatâ€™s 1.5-2 months per â€ślocked inâ€ť dino slot and capping the team in ~1 year, then starting to make changes after you get to enough boost points again, or whether thatâ€™s ~6 months per â€ślocked inâ€ť dino slot and capping the team in 4 years. The difference is that after reaching that cap, how much freedom do you then have to make changes within your boosted lineup? And the answer to that question at the current 2.5%/100 point cost structure is: almost none.

4 Likes

Thing with the old system was that to go from tier 8 to tier 9 and then 10 it took a HUGE amount of boosts, for very little gain, which is why most players stopped at tier 7 or 8, but now that its 100 per tier (expensive at the start compared to old way but WAY cheaper towards the end) players even free ones can make maxing a dinosaur to tier 20 very doable, since going from 19 to 20 will still be the same 100 boosts, as opposed to like what, 1000 or something in old system?

Players can now not have to stop until they get to the end if they wish.

Iâ€™m not going to quote anything that Aplier has written, although everything heâ€™s written is spot on.

Iâ€™m just glad someone gets it, and sees this update for what it really is.

9 Likes

Also they said they will be giving more boosts away each weak in free incubators and such, so you can progress more, which makes the cost even less.

But the best part is that dinosaurs arenâ€™t crazy OP anymore, which in turn SHOULD bring an end to those annoying matches where those Thors sweep your team and one shot your full health dinosaurs. Those REALLY sucked!

Stiffeno, I respect your opinion, but letâ€™s look at the logistics.
How many people stick with a game like this for years and years in order to reach the end?
Have a look at how many people have downloaded this game, and then guess how many play it now.

When you start playing this game you canâ€™t buy boosts till you hit level 10.
Before the update you may have had a few in your inventory from strikes and dbiâ€™s, not many, but at least enough to look forward to applying them when you reached level 10. Call it a carrot being dangled in front of the donkey if you like.
Well thatâ€™s gone now, because I doubt anyone reaches level 10 with enough to boost a single Dino now! Never mind the fun of seeing which you will level to 2 or 3 etcâ€¦

The net result will be that more and more people will download the game, play for a few weeks, maybe even a month or two, but then thatâ€™ll be it. No real incentive to play any more as catch up isnâ€™t many peopleâ€™s idea of fun. With less and less people to play there will be more waiting for match ups, parameters will have to change and we will be back to unfair matchmaking again.

All the talk of how this is how it should have been from the startâ€¦ well it wasnâ€™t was it?
We are given something and work with it for months and months, then bang, itâ€™s taken away and radically altered to suit only the minority who would have max boosted their Dinos.

And more and more people are saying how good it is.

2 Likes

Yes, a player can now â€śfreelyâ€ť get go from t19 to t20 for 100 boost cost. But the names of tiers are just names, the % boost per cost is the mechanical change to be discussed. So that 50% stat gain is still a 2000 total boost cost. If any player is reaching a 50% stat boost in this system, they were just as capable of reaching that 50% stat boost in the old system, just chose not to do so because the system incentivized not piling your boosts onto one dino. However, any player that was capable of reaching 46% boost on 4 different dinos, is now capable of reaching 47.5% on one dino, and 22.5% on another. Or reaching 43% on all 8 dinos now capable of 42.5% on dino, and 27.5% on another. The ratio only gets more extreme as you go down the list. 48% was half the cost of 50%, if scaling everything as if 2% more power (really about 1.3% after diminishing returns) was of equal value to doubling the cost (hint, it wasnâ€™t) sounds like a good decision to you, then idk if there is any response to that.

Do I agree that old boosts were too heavily frontloaded? Certainly. But this new system scales to 50% boost power for the full total cost of the old system, if it instead scaled to the 46% boost for only 25% of the full total cost? (that I donâ€™t think any significant number of people complaining about t7/t8 being too strong or too weak for their cost, those were the tiers that felt like they were where they were supposed to be). Weâ€™d be paying 25 boost points for 2.3% stat boost. Instead that extra 4% stats for 1500 points was split up into every boost tier, and weâ€™re now forced into paying the price of 75 more boost points for 0.2% more stats per tier, that any player would have gladly avoided given the choice, compared to what was widely considered the reasonable and balanced end-game tier level of scaling.

Those top tiers at minimal bonus with exponential scaling only existed to artificially inflate costs so that it would be literally impossible for anyone to reach a full max boosted team over the expected lifetime of the game. Which was â€śnecessaryâ€ť because there was nothing you could do with the boosts after getting the perfect team, they were permanent allocations. Now boosts can be refunded and swapped around. The cap means that a dino can never be truly maxed out, and changing stat allocation build within a dino lets it feel new and fresh while staying overall just as strong.

There is no need to follow such an absurd artificial limit of the past system with permanent boosts that simply gave power, where every maxed dino was the same stats across the board. Now that we have the framework in place for this new system that gives a more dynamic feel to stat boosts that are limited in power allowing for customization, where two maxed dinos of the same type can have completely different allocations that create for completely different playstyles. That is the aspect of this system that needs to be focused on and pushed towards now. Customization rather than simple power increase. And making the player wait on 4 years of power increase before they get to the molasses-slow rate of dynamic customization at 1 refund then full boosting worth of stats into a changed lineup every 3 months, is not the way to do that.

2 Likes

I understand what you say, Burt one of the many complaints was that boosts became too strong too fast, flooding the arena, the new slower system gradually doles out power over a long time, rather then everyone being crazy boosted right now.

Some will like it, some wont of course, but many (myself included) agreed that the amount of boosts going around was WAY too much, and we expected (before it launched) to be a slowly progressing system, which the new system does but should have done from the start, but sadly didnt.

As a collector who likes hunting, just imagine if you could not only collect them all, but also personalize them all into builds/playstyles that fit your idea of what that dino should be, within a reasonable timeframe no less! Then take your personal builds of both team comp and individual dino stats and challenge other players or just AI with them! If things donâ€™t feel right with a build, only take 1 month to completely respec and rebuild from scratch or swap it for another! (at max level, less time for partial respec or lower level).

Can you honestly tell me that that rate of dynamic customization, with the marketing of a boost system where you not just collect your favorite dinos but personalize them too, would be worse than 1 full respec+rebuild every 3 months (for max level, 2 months vs. 2.5 weeks for level 20)?

As Iâ€™ve said, I fully agree that the old exponential system frontloaded far to many of the boosts. But this new system takes the top end cost rate that no one in their right mind was willingly going to pay, and forces it onto all of us.

At the rate of one 2.5% boost per 30 points, thatâ€™s still a slower rate of progression relative to old T8 (i.e. the pre-patch top boost level for most every player in the game, if even that high). Do you think people were complaining about others reaching full t8 teams too fast? Cause I donâ€™t think I saw any of that. The complaints seemed mainly focused on the vastly accelerated lower levels, where t5 was pretty much optimal efficiency at 30% boost for 62 points, or ~2.5% boost per 5 points. 2.5%/30 would be 6x slower than the chief complaint-causing tier, rather than the 20x slower we have now.

1 Like

â€śCatch 'em all, and make 'em yours!â€ť Canâ€™t tell me that wouldnâ€™t make for a even better marketing slogan to someone who plays this game for the love of dinos.

Edit: I mean, you can tell me that it wouldnâ€™t, butâ€¦ would you really believe it?

I can live with the new system because we are all in the same boat. I am slightly upset that my boost purchases took a BIG HIT but everyoneâ€™s did.

Only thing that will really piss me off is If boost purchases are altered for the new system. \$500 would get me 25 boosts. If the next sale is altered to something like \$500 for 50 boosts Iâ€™ll flip!!!

Would you really pay 2000 HC for one single 2.5% boost to one stat, though? Does that sounds like a reasonable rate of exchange to you?

To clarify, thatâ€™s just a little shy of the same stat/cost value buying your way from t7 to t8 in the old system (5% for 250 points, vs 2.5% for 100 points). Or from buying your way from 18% to 38% (t4 to t6, costing 96 points). Which, again, not necessarily to say that the early tiers werenâ€™t too strong for their cost, but those were the types of cost/benefit ratios being considered as good enough net value if you did buy boosts under the old system.

1 Like

Thanks @Aplier for pointing out and making me understand the weaknesses of the new boost system.

I am not good at maths, but maybe it would help if the amount per stat (100) would not be fixed, but would also depend on

• dino level
• tier (tyrann, apex high, â€¦)

Or additional boost rewards based on player or alliance activity.

And maybe Ludia could think about an additional compensation. Not hc, but a fair amount of coins or a free incubator with a tytann or apex candidate.

1 Like