How to balance the Swap in Damage

Swap in Attacks are dumb, like really really dumb, but they are here to stay unfortunately so I think there Is a need for a Nerf to all of them in one go, either make It so It only works if you have More than 2 creatures so you cant take a cheap win or make It so you cant do damage if you Swap in another SI damage ( Dracoceratops Swaps in Phuorex, or Monolorhino, etc etc) and I can bet those who just love to SI free moves are going to complain that its a fair strategy, which Is not, if we could choose our dinos before a battle mabye It would be fair but since rng Is a big factor something needs to be done

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No it,s not dumb

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I disagree, swap in attacks are fine.

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Swap in attacks are fine. Knowing when to swap and anticipating swaps is a key skill when it comes to battling. There are also numerous ways to punish swaps now.

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ill be waiting for mudkipz to reply to this post

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lol ur name says it

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Let’s just say I like to swap :sweat_smile:

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Don’t nerf swap-in attacks, they’re too crucial to the meta right now. However, we could develop certain counter-swap-in abilities, like this custom one:

Rebound

Note: It should activate when opponent swaps in and does damage. Therefore, target should be ‘Swap-In Attacker’ instead of ‘Attacker’.
This ability is just a base. You can then add vulner, stun, distract, speed decrease, etc.

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Your name is literally swap aIot guess you like to swap a lot l

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Swap attacks are not dumb. It adds something extra to the game. You can easily predict a swap by swapping into SR3, phourex or anything with an attacking on escape ability. People are starting to unlock hydraboa which will greatly punish the swappers

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You know I would, but I’m still trying to make sense of what the OPs solution is. As for whether or not SIAs are too strong, we’ve all had that discussion before, and I’m not seeing anything revolutionary here.

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I would like to see a whole suite of these kinds of abilities to help counter swappers.

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Its doesnt add up anything see you are all, its not strategic a lot of these swap in damage can clean themselves up from lock ir are outright inmune to being pinned down, its boring having to face countless of no brained stategies cause they can keep swaping and swaping and swaping withlittle to no consecuence, besides what I suggest doesnt make them useless It just stops SI damage from being abuses to ridículous points, no More stealing victories that you shouldnt have no More swap in chains

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I guess I don’t have a problem with constantly swapping in or out. Swapping without a SIA is inherently risky because your opponent gets in a free hit, and swapping with an SIA locks you down for a bit even if your opponent does cleanse (though it would be nice if those cleansing moves did less damage sometimes: looking at you Dracoceratops), so you have a bit of time to deal with them, and a swap-out is usually telegraphed after the cleanse.

No, the main “problems” with SIAs in my view come down to two factors:

  1. Unpredictability. Unlike every other move in a dinos kit, players have no way of knowing when or even if their opponents is going to use one, much less which one it will be. This surprise factor is fairly unique to SIAs. The counterplay is basically to assume your opponent is going to use an SIA every time you get to low health, but there’s no guarantee that your opponent will even have an SIA, causing you to misplay and swap out when you shouldn’t.

  2. Ultra-priority. Not only can you not predict when a SIA is coming, there’s nothing you can really do to counter one (outside of preventing the swap in the first place, which is negated by any dino with Swap prevention immunity). Even priority moves like Instant Invincibility won’t save you, when again they would work against any other move in the game.

Alone, having either of these traits would be fine. But combined they create a legion of dinos that can blindside you with secret ultra-priority moves. This is why SIAs have come to dominate the meta: all meta dinos seem to either have a strong SIA or counter swapping, sometimes both at once (like Phorurex). Of course we’re used to it by now, and there’s enough of an ecosystem built around swapping now that it (mostly) feels balanced. But we forget that any dino lacking in SIAs or anti-swap just cannot be meta relevant, pushing what would otherwise probably be completely viable picks to the side. The fact is that the swap meta doesn’t leave a place for all dinos; and since the swap meta IS the meta, this effectively excludes entire portions of the game.

So for balance, I think either the surprise element or ultra-priority need to go. For the surprise element, the only solution would be to reveal teams before the match, but that might increase drop rates since you’ll be able to tell more frequently when a match is unwinnable from the start - so that’s NOT a good idea. So if we’re leaving the unique surprise element of swap-in attacks alone, that means we have to deal with their ultra-priority. One solution would be adding new moves that specifically target swap-in dinos like @VeteranSen suggested here. It would be even better if these effects activated after a swap but before a SIA (sort of like how trap cards in Yu-Gi-Oh activate in response to another card, but the trap cards effects resolve first). That way, when your opponent does use an SIA, your dino can distract them, stun them, or put up a shield. While these moves would help counter and deter swapping strategies, their main drawback is that they don’t directly help any non-meta dinos that don’t recieve these abilities, leaving them as useless as before. So I think a more universal solution is needed.

The simple universal solution is to give SIAs the same priority as other moves. That way any faster or higher priority move can counter them. Trying to use Swap in Stunning Strike? Too bad, I used Instant Invincibility Taunt. Or my cunning just used Distracting impact against your slower resilient - forcing swappers to spend their boosts a bit more evenly, since currently all they really need is enough health to survive until they can swap out and maybe pour the rest into attack.This instantly would give tons of currently off-meta dinos options to counter SIAs. But not all SIAs are really problematic, and some like Swap In Distraction and Swap In Invincibility need their priority to function. For those moves, they would be granted the same level of priority as stuff like Instant Invincibility - so really, only damaging and rending SIAs would have normal priority.

In exchange for this general nerf against swapping, they deserve a quality of life buff, and that would be letting you choose which dino you swap to after an automatic swap move instead of it just being the next dino in line. That way, swapping strategies that use these moves are less dependent on the RNG of drawing your team in the right order. Honestly I think this change should be in the game already, but swapping is currently too strong to justify a buff like that, even if it makes the game better to be. In the context of the general swapping nerf I suggested, this buff would be far more justified.

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I would be fine with that, my principal problem Is having to make a Team specifically countering SI damage because RNG and the fact that a lot of the SI have inmunity to being locked

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The rise of on-escape moves and no-escape act as a counter to swap-ins. Swapping is more balanced than ever and doesn’t need to be nerfed. It’s simply a part of the game, and knowing how to anticipate and capitalize on swaps is a crucial aspect of PVP.

Without it the game would be extremely boring and one-dimensional. If players are having problems with swaps, then they should use dinos with on-escape moves or no-escape. Problem solved.

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IMO this is the bigger problem with swap-in moves. They should go in turn order–they’re still advantageous because you get a turn when you otherwise wouldn’t, but it prevents stuff like Spyx, for example, from eating a single hit then being ganked with no real response.

Certain swap-ins also wouldn’t really matter in terms of their functionality if they lost super-priority, and for those which do need it (i.e. swap-in invinc, swap-in dodge, etc), they can get it. It provides a better route of balancing. You basically cover that in your post, but I think it’s worth reiterating.

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I mean Swap-in headbutt is a thing.

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The problem isn’t that swapping can’t be countered, but that those counters aren’t universal. Not everything has an on escape move - and if you don’t, and aren’t a strong swap in dino yourself, you probably won’t see play. While swap in moves are good against pretty much anything that doesn’t hard counter them (e.g. rend resistance or on escape users), not everything has the ability to counter swap in moves. Swap in attack users are useful in most situations, and therefore their counters see play, whereas anything else doesn’t really have a purpose. The entire meta revolves around swapping, and if you can’t swap in or counter swappers, you’re basically useless.

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Yeah I agree that this is the bigger problem, and like you mention here it isn’t even in all SIAs, just damaging ones.

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