Ludia Forums

I finally get why Resilient attacks are so strong

… but I still don’t agree with the way they are.

I think the reason is raids. To summarize, the main reason that I think resilient moves are too strong in Arena is some combination of the dodge removal making dodging moves essentially a non-factor and too many creatures having resilient attacks. But in a raid, if the boss has a dodging ability (as we see with Smilonemys), dodges can make it quite difficult for your non-resilient teammates to land a strong hit, making the dodge removal quite valuable. Having said that though, I would STILL argue against the current strength of resilient moves for the following reasons:

  1. I would say that Smilonemys is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to defensive options in a boss - with dodge and distraction on top of shields and great armor. Dodge is only part of the reason why it can be so hard to do a lot of damage to it. I would bet that if nothing else changes, standard cunning bosses will go down way more easily if your team has a resilient attack user (perhaps even being too easy). I’m curious to see what future raids bring…

  2. The move just does too much (at least for how prevalent it is). Dodges and shields are essentially equivalent as defenseive options, minus the risk-reward aspect of dodging. But comparing resilient attacks to shield-removing moves (basically fierce and defense shattering attacks), resilient attacks have waaaay more utility on top of the removal of the defensive ability. All defense shattering does is break through shields and armor and remove taunt. Resilient moves remove dodge AND cleanse distraction AND remove speed boosts AND slow the opponent. Compare this to fierce moves, whose only distinctive ability (compared to defense shattering) is cleansing vulnerable, which very few creatures actually can dish out. Meanwhile, distractions are widespread and slows are good against every non-deceleration-immune creature in the game. And superiority strike has shown how strong distraction cleansing and slowing can be even without dodge removal. This also makes resilient creatures viable in both arena and raids, while many resilient counters (like thor) were retooled into mostly raid creatures.

  3. Even if dodge removal is “required” for some raids, you really only need one creature on the team that can remove it. So why was this move given to so many creatures? It should be much rarer, or maybe not even a basic strike that can be used every turn. Make players time their dodge removal more carefully. On top of this, lots of other slowing moves (and devestation) are now precise, so they can hit through dodge too. And again, if resilient attacks really were designed as a more raid-oriented ability, why give them to so many creatures instead of just the ones intended for raids? Although as I’ve already stated, resilient creatures tend to be strong in both arena and raids anyway.

So yeah, I kinda get now why they designed these moves the way they did - they needed to give the counters of cunning creatures a way to remove dodge during raid battles to help the rest of the team do damage. But if they’re going to make these moves as strong as they are, they should be on far fewer dinos, and possibly removed as a basic attack altogether (though kept as a secondary strong attack). I would say that Ludia should balance for Arena first, and raids second. They can always make a raid boss stronger by tweaking it’s attacks and resistances, but in arena, we all have to deal with the same imbalances.

5 Likes

In this regard at least, I think there should be a raid move set and a pvp move set. I am not really against resilience because I would rather see resilience as the top move than evade and dodge. I do think evade and dodge dinos should probably get some buffs though because something like Erli gets taken out to easy and in many cases gets one hit and then that is it. At the very least the evade chances could be increased so if Erli or something is not facing a resilience dino, it stands a better chance because right now his evade cloak is to risky even against non resilience. But, the raid dino vs pvp dino thing is in my opinion the wrong way to go, and making moves based on raid or something of that nature that are then used in pvp is the wrong way to go.

2 Likes

That’s not a terrible idea to do separate raid and arena movesets, if they were willing to do that. I know pokemon go ended up making moves do different damage in pve and pvp when they finally added trainer battles. I would much rather have ever dino be usable in every situation, or at least designed that way.

I think the biggest problem with resilience is how easy it is to remove dodges because of how prevalent they are. Give cunning creatures all the buffs you want, but slowing and removing dodge and distraction will always bring them down. And now there’s 57 creatures with these resilient attacks (if my count is right). Don’t forget how hard multi-turn dodges are to reapply, and how strong slows are by themselves.

I do agree with this. My issue with the new creature abilities is that there are too many counters to other abilities which means you rarely get your abilities to work, whether they be a dodge effect, damage increase or whatever. What we have now is all geared towards Raids as far as I can see which makes their use in regular Arena and Tournaments a little much.

2 Likes

Yeah the power creep has been going on for a while. In the beginning raptors were too strong, so they made superiority strike. I remember thinking this move had a ton of effects when it came out, but now it looks tame. Then they followed with shielded decelerating strike, superior vulnerability, and of course cautious strike. And now we’re here, where every move has a million effects. Does it add more depth? Maybe. But it also just makes things more complicated.

Aaaand Ludia introduces Quetzorion boss.