Ludia Forums

I have to say it again: swap in damage is ruining this game

First of all let me just say I use these creatures in my main team. I don’t wanna sound hypocrytical. Doesn’t mean I like this. I do it because I feel like I HAVE to use them to be competitive, and so far I’ve proven myself right… I know some (very few) people on the top are able to be competitive without them, and I REALLY admire that, but I don’t see how I could do it cause I’ve always donated he components for the best counters against this “strategy” (I don’t use Tenonto, Thor nor Tryko). So my choice was the old “if you can’t beat them, join them”, unfortunately… That being said, in my arena team I used the rat since it became OP, and it’s still a game-changer even with all the changes it’s been through. Then the rhino SIA became a thing. After a few months of grinding I finally could boost it and level it up to 27, enough to make a big difference even though the rest of my team (and opponents’) were all at 30, fully boosted. The team actually improved and I went above my highscore in the arena. Now came Ceramagnus. I unlocked it this week put “only” 18 boosts in it and started using it. The plan was to use it for fun, but guess what? My team improved again! And I went above my highscore this season! That’s right, I’m using rat (30), Rhino (now 28) and Cera (26) only halfway boosted and I’m higher than I’ve been with a fully boosted level 30 team, which is ridiculous!

That would be enough of an argument, but what also made me write all this was the current tournament… Each week that goes by, people are leveling up the Epic Rhino and Rare Draco to the heights and boosting them for tourneys… Combine that with certain overleveled chompers and “no escapers”, and that’s it! You got yourself a winning team! Unless of course, the opponent also has them at better levels and boosts…

So basically, notice how this game has become a huge swap in damage dispute. People are actually swapping out PREDICTING a rhino, or rat or whatever will come in (and they are usually right), both in the arena and in tournaments… The only other creatures that are relevant are those who can counter these SIA users or set them up, with few exceptions… No Escape creatures, snake with the OE Rampage, Lion and chompers that are able to two-shot them… SIA damage sums up this game today and this is terribly annoying, in my opinion.

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This is the power of strong swap in attackers. They influence every single match in the game, because the threat is always there, whether or not your opponent actually has one. This kind of unknown isn’t found anywhere else in the game. Besides the other ways that swap in dinos are strong, I feel like their influence on the game shouldn’t be THIS strong. You should be able to know for sure if your opponent using a swap in attack is an option, so they don’t dominate your mindset in every match.

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The arena isn’t quite like that for me (yet) but I can see skill tournaments revolving more and more around Swap-in stunning strike and the counters to it. It restricts the pool of viable creatures to a frustrating degree imo.

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we’re gonna have differing opinions on if swap in damage is bad. Personally, i don’t see swap in damage as a bad thing. but, how it is currently implemented is bad. some creatures having too much damage on swap in. and not enough counter measurers or ways to know when it’s coming.

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I can agree with that. I don’t think any game mechanics are inherently broken, but swap ins could use some QOL changes to make them a bit friendlier. They do play a very important role as a trump to priority moves. The thing is, they’re often even better: equal or better damage, and they can’t be accurately predicted. So either the strength of swap in attacks needs to be brought in a bit, or there needs to be some kind of player infrastructure to allow them to accurate anticipate (and therefore develop active countermeasures against) swap in attacks.

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It use to be: “if the guy was using cheap and easy to make dinos and he is at the same level you are, the Rat was a sure thing” But in the next months we will see Monolorhino and Gorgotrebax everywhere. It won’t be a question of “does my opponent has a swapper” but more: “which one does he use!” And how many more does he have after you killed one!

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Plus there aren’t a lot of creatures, or any in some cases, that can set up on swappers.

I’m not completely against swap in damage, but against how they are right now. The Rats and Rhinos are simply too strong… And Cera, for what I can see it doing at level 26, it will be a freak at 30 fully boosted… Just imagine… At the moment only those who had the time, patience and effort to put their epic Rhinos at 30 are able to swap in for 2700 damage in any creature. But EVERYONE will do that with Cera… I’ve even seen players who resisted using SI damage till now saying that they WILL use Cera… it’s gonna be sooo fun when the arenas are full of them…

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Monolorhino to me is the most balanced cause it attack is the lowest only 250 more than the average ceratopsian and considering it rarity and need for exclusive dna I think it fair. It also doesn’t have speed control, it doesn’t have a rampage and it can be easily revenge killed or set up on thanks to only 1x multiplyers turn 1. And in its rarity it does have a lot of counters. It not to strong or weak perfect for a wild card and swapper as it also can’t cleanse it bindings.

Magnus, rhino, and Draco on the other hand are way too strong and super hard to set up on. All three can do absurd damage without warning up to 2,000 with boosts on rhino and magnus and Draco 40% of your hp and 50% if it gets a crit. Add to that that they can’t really be set up on as they can just do an absurd amount of damage, and have the hp to take som hit to survive to just swap in again .

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Only if the opponent has a nitro chomper, so I wouldn’t call that easy. There’s not a lot of viable creatures that can revenge-kill Monolorhino at all, let alone easily.

Draco is waay easier to set up on in a lot of situations.

Neither can be perfectly set up on though, unless you count Titanoboa and maybe Rixis.

I agree on the others though.

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Cunnings actually do well to set up as rhino can be distracted to make sure it already low attack and multiples don’t hurt, they can damage it kill it or just leave it close enough to be swapped in on. And while you can’t really trap it you can predict if they are gonna swap and also swap into a fresh new dino.

Tryko also does well as a revenge kill option

That depends as the problem even more is it can just hit like a dump truck them leave the come back in again. Unlike the other three at least those stay trapped for two turns plus it the only one that can break armor or shields turn 1. I feel like just lowering the damage but increase the effect could easily solve this issue. The rat however is tricky but also simple.

MRhino I think is fine, it’s bulky, but rather limited in output after swap in, besides, mixing a Magnus counter rn isn’t a good idea. Rat is a similar story, tho it trades a lot of tankiness for 1v1. I do think Rat should lose the resistance tho.

Magnus, yeah I got nothing for that, everything about it just gels too well together, so I think that a) nerf it’s output, yoink it’s speed decrease res, and maybe it’s rampage (maybe not all at once) or b) Introduce A LOT more anti swappers in the unique meta. Meta is growing closer to swap in (I’m starting to see a pattern here) so I think more anti swaps would work, especially with how underused On Escape is (We have 4 uniques with it out of 27, what the heck?)

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Ya thats why I said Mrhino is fine especially losing it 1,300 attack. But the other need just minor or major tweaks.

I think it could still be fine even with 1300, not sure tho

Nah 1,200- 1250 is high enough it not too low but also not to high and allow for more finishing swap play rather than just swap in and out.

Most margins are 50-125 points, that’s not the bad off the top of my head, it’s past midnight here tho lol

Pus considering it bulk and resistances i think that its attack deserves to be lower to balance it out

It’s more so ceramagnus, and woolly rhino that are troublesome, not swap in stunning strike itself in my opinion