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[Intentional] The Sharpstone Keep Weekend Gem Challenge Event entry fee is 450% of the base price

The event costs 225 gold per run which means you break even at a roll of 15 or higher (assuming you value a gem at 20 gold, a rare at 50 and a common at 5):

In contrast, the normal Sharpstone Keep challenges costs 50 with a break even with a 6 roll or higher:

You have about a 66% chance to roll 15 or above with 3 dice and 98% to roll above 6 with 3 dice.

What does this mean? If you have a large amount of gold but need gems, you should do this challenge. But if you are short on gold, you may want to consider skipping it, especially if you can’t beat all 3 bosses. The chances of profiting drop to 51% with 2 dice and 30% with a single dice.

The event team usually sets the entry price of an event at the base price or 150% of the base challenge price in gold or the equivalent in gems, with the appropriate rewards. This is the first time I’ve seen a challenge be set at 450% of the base fee. However, I understand the rationale. Gems are a premium currency and since the latest economy updates, Ludia has been reluctant to offer gem events, especially non-VIP events. It seems that they revised their position, but would rather disincentivize players by decreasing the return per run. I suspect that this is in response to some strong criticism regarding the availability of gem events both on this forum and other social media platforms.

For me personally, I like that they give the players an option to effectively exchange gold for gems, even if it isn’t at as good a rate as before. However, that’s only because I have accumulated a tremendous amount of gold. It is a pretty raw deal for new players.

Notably, the event team has been playing around with various elements of challenge events. The 450% entry fee is the latest manifestation of this trend. Previously, I took note of reduced rewards table for a VIP event here: [Intentional] VIP only Calliope Moment of Glory - Heartcoil Deeps Reduced Rewards Table (equivalent to Frostsilver Mines)

At the end of the day, I’d rather overpay an easy event to access a gold to gem exchange, than to play a hard Dungeon to get crappy rewards.

Nevertheless, remain vigilant on how aspects of challenge events change going forward. I think we are going to see a lot more tweaks to costs and rewards in the future.

I concur that it’s seems pricy when you get a low end payout for high end entry fee. 175 would seems to be a more fair price for low end payout yield

I think valuing the equipment pieces is highly variable but generally worthless. Yes, you can sell them… some times, over time.

The fact is, if you want anything other than gems, you’re better off with the standard. If you want gems, there are only three numbers that give you a plus. The chances of that are 38.6% on three rolls.

Now, given that, the average gems returned are 58 gems. At 38.6%, your gem return on running this dungeon is 22.3 gems, or about 446 gold (based on 1 gem = 20 gold)

So, long term, you should win out, but you may need a lot of trials to see it.

If you take into account the losing (but still gems) rolls, it gets marginally better.

Looking at gold value, I think the standard dungeon is better. Consider three rolls of 250 gold, 100 gold, or 15 gems… converting back to gems, average gems is about 10 or 200 gold for an investment of 50.

Man… I hope I got that math right. :slight_smile:

I did not take into account that you actually do have three rolls and you might have two winning rolls, taking the highest value. But, that increases both sets equally. I still thing the non-specia dungeon is a better return.

Hi newbie here so not aware of the nerf until @retsamerol posted.

Playing vip and the event seemed to work for me. May have got lucky rolling 20’s. Managed to convert all my spare cards to experience and have more gold / gems after event then before.

Thank you Lidia for the game. Keep up the good work. Enjoying the game so far.

I don’t like trading gold for gems. It just takes so long to accumulate enough gems to get that big gold payoff. This one is definitely too pricey for me. I played the free time, and that was it,

When I did the first, free time, I thought “cool! 75g per run with my B team and getting nearly 1k gems!”

Then I saw the price and never ran it again. The 17 reward is the same as the 16 reward in Frostsilver which I can also clear easily with my 100% B team, the difference being it costs less than half, gives a little more XP (which is actually important for my B team, have 2 characters that have legendaries waiting for them to level up) and has an added benefit of the possibility of getting WAY more epics.

This is probably the first event I didn’t prticipate in. If that’s the direction it’s going I probably won’t participate in any others as well.

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My math shows that the gem return on 3 dice is 27.5925 gems/run if you always take gems over gear. At that rate, it should take you about 31 runs to reach the cap of 840, maybe more to cap with a 20. At that point, you’ve spent ~7000 gold for ~900-1000 gems which is the equivalent of ~18000-20000 gold , which more than doubles your investment. This is still an improvement over most events which usually give back just under double your investment in gold and gems. Standard challenges also award more epics so, .

In regards to “not liking to buy gold with gems,” the challenges do not, on average, return enough gold to make them sustainable. Since most of the return on wealth comes in the form of gems, it stands to reason that, in the absence of gold events, there’s no way around buying gold from time to time.

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Taking into account all the gold and gems in the standard 50g Sharpstone, the average gold/gem return, if you HIT one, is about 6 gems per 50g. 6 gems is worth 120g, or a return of 140% on top of your investment.

Assuming your numbers are right (and the challenge is gone, so I can’t verify), you’re return on investment is between 170% and 186%.

Now, standard Sharpstone has 8 rolls to return something. How many did the 2x challenge have? I vaguely recall 6 gem slots and no gold slots.

I have never used money to purchase gold or anything else from this game. I did hit double 20s on my free play of the previous gem event which maxed me for the event, and after reading on here about buying gold with gems I used 500 to buy the 10000 gold.

I focus on keeping my Explore team leveled both character and items being used, then unused characters leveled both character and item used, then extraneous Explore items, and then unused characters unused items. Gold events help catch up a lot so does trying to maintain a gold cushion to cover two or three level ups.

Taking the average of the gold/gem rewards and multiplying by the gold/gem rate of return is flawed because averaging assumes you will be just as happy with 120 gems as you will be with 5 gems. A weighted average is necessary. I’ve been working on a challenge rewards calculator based on other work I’ve reported on this forum.

If you notice a change between the two sets of calculations, I realized the third term was in error. Because doubles are combined, my calculations were adding them twice, so any doubles to be subtracted would need to be subtracted twice. There wasn’t much of an impact to my original calculations, since those were mostly focused on high priority results. Working on the calculator, it became quite clear that for priority = 20, for which the expected probability should be 3/8000 (one triple (1/8000) x 3 cards), was calculated to be roughly seven times that value.

I don’t intend to allow editing but you should be able to copy and paste into your own google drive spreadsheet. From there, just alter your priorities to fit your preferences for any given set of challenge rewards and the spreadsheet will automatically generate accurate expected results for 1, 2 or 3 dice of any dungeon.

Great! I look forward to seeing your work!

But, I do disagree with determine the average rate of return. Whether you’re happy or not, that’s what you get.

My original post assumed you’d only be happy with the top three gem/gold rewards, and used the percentage chance to get one of them to scale down the value. That’s where I came up with Standard Sharpstone being almost twice as profitable as the challenge.

That said, I’m happy to be wrong and I’ll enjoy checking your your link.