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[Intentional] VIP only Calliope Moment of Glory - Heartcoil Deeps Reduced Rewards Table (equivalent to Frostsilver Mines)

Here is the rewards table for the Moment of Glory Event:

Here’s the normal table for Heartcoil Deeps:

Here’s the normal table for Frostsilver Mines:

The event loads the Heartcoil Deep Dungeon appropriately.

The event is free for the first 25 runs and then 350 gold per run thereafter.

The event, however, offers the equivalent rewards table as Frostsilver Mines. In other words, 4 Epic cards for a 20 roll, 20 Rare cards for a 19 roll, all the way down to 3 gems for a 1 roll.

Now this could be intended, where VIP access has limited benefits compared to non-VIP. However, the same could have been accomplished by offering Frostsilver Mines as the adventure, rather than Heartcoil Deeps. It would also be very disheartening if VIP events offer difficult events with minimal rewards.

Rather, I suspect that the wrong rewards table was loaded into the events template, which ended up greatly reduced the rewards. If this is the case, some compensation is appropriate, potentially scaled to how many runs were completed, or if records of dice results are available, then the appropriate rewards that should have been given added to the affected accounts.

Hey retsamerol, I’ll be sure to pass your feedback to our team. Thanks!

Customer support representative “Eric” checked with the team and confirmed that the rewards tables were correct: that the VIP exclusive Heartcoil Deeps Moment of Glory challenge rewards (i.e. 3.5 times less than normal Heartcoil Deeps challenges) were in fact correct and no mistakes were made.

I think this strengthens the case that Ludia engages in deceptive practices regarding the benefits of VIP subscription:

  • the rate of VIP card drops are lower with VIP subscription than non-subscribers.
  • the value of VIP moment of glory is worth at most 25 * 100 gold, rather than the 25 * 350 most consumers would assume it would be worth. Most likely less due to the increased difficulty of the Dungeon compared to Frostsilver Mines.

I think there’s no question that a VIP subscription offers the best value in terms of converting dollars to gems and gold. However, these deceptive practices leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I suspect that it violates consumer protection laws in various jurisdictions through misleading advertisements for the service.

Including the recent wording of “Guaranteed Legendary Cards” in large text (with clarification in small print) when only a single legendary card was guaranteed, I’m concerned about the marketing team’s approach to promoting the game through misleading and/or ambiguous promotional materials. For details see False advertising

Consequently I must advocate against supporting the game through VIP so long as Ludia continues to engage in these deceptive practices.


The nerve of them hiding stuff right out in the open where everyone can see it. Simply, diabolical!

Guess the weighted die question falls under here too, if that is the case. Great sleuthing @retsamerol

There was no way to know what the rewards table for the Moment of Glory would be ahead of time based on the official calendar of events: [Calendar] Aug 26 - Sep 1, 2019

All that was shown was a picture of the required character, i.e. Calliope, and the challenge, i.e. Heartcoil Deeps. I think it is reasonable to assume that the reward table would be equivalent to the reward table of the normal Heartcoil Deeps, just as all the previous VIP and non-VIP Moment of Glory challenges have been equivalent to their normal challenges.

Remember, VIP-exclusive challenges exist to incentivize subscription to the VIP service. People are paying money in order to access the rewards.

If the Calendar of Events happened to have convinced players to subscribe to VIP in hopes of getting 25 free runs of the Heartcoil Deeps challenges for the Heartcoil Deeps challenge rewards, they would be sorely disappointed at getting access only to the rewards for the Frostsilver Mines challenge.

It wasn’t until I was 3-4 runs into the challenge before I noticed that something was off with the rewards. And I believe I have already demonstrated that I am at least a somewhat observant individual. I imagine some VIP-subscribers missed that the rewards were 3.5 times lower than expected completely.

If you want to dig really deep into what is or what is not misleading advertising, we can just look at the jurisprudence in Ludia’s own jurisdiction of Canada. The Competition Bureau is the federal agency who deals with deceptive marketing practices. They have a helpful digest that elaborate on how advertisers cannot rely on disclaimers and “hiding information in plain sight” to weasel out of allegations of deceptive practices here:

In particular, I will reproduce the passages from “2.3.2 Second fundamental principle”, which I think are relevant to this discusion:

The potential to mislead consumers increases significantly when a disclaimer is used to restrict, contradict or somehow negate the message to which it relates. If the main body of the advertisement creates a materially false or misleading general impression in itself, before any reference is made to a disclaimer, then fine print may not do much to alter the general impression in a way that ensures that consumers will not be misled.

An easy guide is to examine the disclaimed text alone. What is the plain meaning readers would ascribe to it? Is the fine print being used to protect the advertiser from the consequences of that meaning? If yes, then the fine print is being used to limit or contradict the general impression conveyed by the disclaimed text.

— 1990 Misleading Advertising Bulletin.Footnote12

Advertisers employ the unique characteristics and constraints of a medium to full advantage when designing advertisements to grab attention and succinctly deliver a compelling message. Disclaimers, however, are not usually composed or positioned with the same intent. Even when simply worded, they may not be an effective means of altering the strongly persuasive and attention‑grabbing elements of the representation.

To illustrate this principle, the author of our 1990 feature challenged readers to recall if they noticed any footnotes in the article, whether they bothered to read them, and if so, whether they remembered what the footnotes said.

The likelihood that disclaimer statements will have a significant effect on the general impression conveyed to an average purchaser by a false or misleading advertisement is small. Indeed, it is arguable that the manner of presentation of disclaimers usually ensures the very opposite result.

— 1990 Misleading Advertising Bulletin.Footnote13

The likely impact of disclaimers is further compromised when they are worded in a way that is confusing or difficult to understand, are buried in lines of dense fine print or are otherwise presented in a way that effectively obscures their true meaning.

Finally, advertisements are not contracts, and disclosing the truth in fine print may not immunize advertisers from the consequences of making materially false or misleading representations.

The courts must not approach a written advertisement as if it were a commercial contract by reading it several times, going over every detail to make sure they understand all its subtleties. Reading over the entire text once should be sufficient to assess the general impression conveyed by a written advertisement.”

— Supreme Court of Canada in a case involving the interpretation of advertising under the Quebec Consumer Protection Act.Footnote14

[Emphasis added]

Are you still dwelling on the wording of legendary cards? It’s a true statement when you change the perspective. You are not their only customer so yes, the wording of them offering guaranteed cards is accurate even if in individual payouts of one.

You seem to be confused. This topic is regarding the rewards table for the Heartcoil Deeps Calliope Moment of Glory event, which gave out Frostsilver Mines equivalent rewards.

The advertisement for the event was the calendar. The disclaimer was the table of rewards that you accessed by pressing the tooltip <i> for the challenge. I’m saying that having the event give out 3.5 times lower rewards is misleading.

I did reference the legendary cards as another example of where Ludia’s marketing team engaged in deceptive practices, where the large text is the advertisement and the guaranteed cards at the bottom was the disclaimer. However, this was a single paragraph within this entire thread. Rather, you, @ApacheMayhem, seem to be the person dwelling on that particular wording.