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Is 2.7 worse then 2.3?

So this update brings some realy nice things like the long awaited compys and even a dodo, but it brings some pretty questionable things like a non supehybrid unique, extremly confusing and RNG based abiltys(and the patch notes don’t do a good job at explaining them either), some pretty decent balancing but a ton of creatures were simply left out or overnerfed/buffed in a wierd way…

So i’m basicly gonna share some of my huge problems with this update and i’m hoping mainly the first one gets somewhat discused

Non superhybrid uniques

Now i’m not gonna lie, about 95% of the reason why i’m making this topic is cause compsocaulus is a unique

I have a question for Ludia. Why, just why, the game has been stable with the way hybrid level-rarity, stuff worked for 3 years, why just halfway break it all of a sudden

First i’m gonna go over why i think this is awfull, then why i think this was done in the first place and then how to fix this(and suprise suprise theres basicly no way i see that this can realy be fixed)

Why non superhybrid uniques make no scense

So lets just go over how hybrid level-rarity has been working completly fine till now(tho basicly everyone already knows but still lets just go over it)

So we have 3 raritys for real life non hybrid creatures that being common, rare and epic. Not too many but defenetly not particilarly restrictive

Then each non hybrid/regular creature can make a hybrid thats at least 1 rarity higher then it self(and due to how rarity-levels work this obviosly makes scense). Because epics couldn’t fuse into realy anything we have the legendary rarity which is used for epic non hybrids and hybrids alike to get hybrids/superhybrids. Then we have uniques which basicly exist only so legendary hybrids can fuse into something

Uniques were clearly meant to be this end game type rarity, the hardest to obtain, but also generaly the most powerfull, the complete hybrid lineage. And it all made scense. Superhybrids from the higher raritys land in the final rarity, which is restricted to superhybrids in order to keep the rarity as this again, complete hybrid lineage type thing.

Then as recently as in the summer last year in 2.0, apexes decided to show up, they were then meant to be even stronger then uniques(i think we all know that theres basicly an entire thread that disagrees with apexes replacing years long built uniques, and i agree with that, but it’s getting off topic so yeah), but apexes are as we all know non hybrids, avalible only through their respective raids. And at least acording to mortem rex’s descripton, apexes are not hybrids even in the lore of JWA i guess, they’re geneticly modified regular creatures.

So basicly we have 3 raritys for regular creatures(in which there can be hybrids and superhybrids that decend from the lowest raritys), then we have legendarys which are used as the midgame rarity, and are a mixture of hybrids and superhybrids to kinda perpare the player for the grind for the endgame viable superhybrids that are uniques. Then uniques exist to serve as the endgame creatures and superhybrids for the legendarys(and being superhybrids they take quite some work as well), and then apexes which are non hybrids and exist to kinda spice up the endgame
(Apexes are kinda direct upgrades to regular creatures while uniques are a mixture of their 3 components)

So in the end, raritys-hybrid levles are actualy realy well made IMO

Until compso decided to show up(i’ll be calling compsocaulus compso, and compsognathus compy just in case theres any confusion)

And now onto why it’s bad for the game

Well my main reason is that, it basicly makes the unique rarity less unique. I know a few people have been saying that it’s bad because compso(and future hybrid uniques) is(are) gonna be more avalible to newer players, so the endgame rarity is even more avalible to newer players, which would then progres too fast(it’s not like the other endgame rarity, apexes are already too easy to obtain for newer players cause of carry strats), and while i think thats a part of the problem, for me personaly thats not the main problem

So this is realy hard and wierd for me to actualy explain so it’s understadable(especialy as i’m not a native english speaker if it wasn’t obvios). But, for me it basicly ruins the literal uniqueness of the rarity as a whole. Uniques being a superhybrid only rarity defenetly wasn’t restrictive in any way. It made the rarity so much better as an endgame rarity. Compso being a regular hybrid just doesen’t feel right being in there

Now being a bit more honest it’s also cause this most likley means apex superhybrids and what we previusly considerd to be the highest hybrid rarity and the complete linage(so uniques) is now basicly pointless, cause it would mean that these hybrid uniques will take over the unique rarity fuse into apex superhybrids, and make apexes replacing uniques 5× worse(the exact opposite of what the thread i mentioned wanted). Which basicly means apexes are the new uniques, and uniques are just fancy legendarys that exist for no reason. Now if the game would have been like this from the start it would make some scense, but we’re way too far into the game to add something like that.

Now lets explain how apex superhybrids also kinda ruin apexes. It’s basicly the same for me perosnaly. It would make the rarity feel less unique, not geneticly modified scaled up regular creatures, but just more stuff that will fully replace the years long built uniques. Now it doesen’t realy sound so bad that superhybrids avalible through fusions, not raids, are replacing lower rarity superhybrids. The problem is that we’re too far into the game for that to happen, it basicly means that in order to adapt all players would eventualy have to replace a long built team of high lvl uniques with a new rarity all of a sudden. And there would also be huge inequaility between raid avalible non hybrid apexes and the superhybrid fusable apexes in how avalible they are

So to keep the nonscense i’m trying to explain short, it would basicly make both the apex and unique rarity far less actualy unique and feel way more like just shiny legendarys

Now this was mainly what i think would suck if apex superhybrids become a thing(also i hope i explained it so it’s somewhat understandable, if it’s not i can explain it in the replys), but now lets get to what we know is official and confirmed by the literal patch notes, and thats at least one non superhybrid unique

From here i’m gonna act like it’s the only one, more of them would be awfull but lets act like it’s para lux all over again

So we have this random compy trying to be an amphibian breaking a tehnicly non writen rule about uniques being only superhybrids. What does this actualy mean for the game?

Well if it’s only one and it doesen’t actualy get a superhybrid, i don’t think it means too much. The problem is gonna be that it’s gonna be realy hard to balance as a hybrid along with the heavy majority of the rarity being superhybrids(if anyone remembers when a few months ago i did that post about balancing uniques based on execlusivity, i’m planing on doing the same for legendarys hopefully next week but i’ll do only hybrids for now as balancing superhybrids along with them is just wierd). And again it just feels wierd battling this creature that clearly isn’t suposed to be here, it’s not a complete lineage yet some how finds it self in this rarity battling the ones that are. It generaly just feels like it unneseceraly breaks what we previusly considerd a rule, while it would have functioned perfectly fine as a legendary. It just makes 0 scense to me.

So to conclude this and finaly move on it basicly doesen’t feel right and just doesen’t make scense as a unique(and out of all things why did it have to be compso, if ludia realy wants unique hybrids it may as well be a lux hybrid)

Why was it made unique

So this is basicly my lil theory to why it’s been made unique

Most people problably think that it’s superhybrid apexes, and tbh you’d problably be right(if thats truly the case then what 2.7 is perparing for, it automaticly makes it worse then 2.3 for me)
(Also my only i guess counter theory against superhybrid apexes is that in 2.0 ludia said that apexes are gonna be avalible only through apex raids, not sure if this was meant to be true, basicly untill there realy needs to be more ways, or only for the time but yeah? I have no idea what i tryed to say, basicly they did specify they’ll hopefully add more bosses and more apexes, but they didn’t say there’d be more ways of obtaining apexes)

but i my self have a realy spesific theory for this

Now my theory is that ludia wanted a new unique, since by the time 2.8 comes out(most likley kinda early July, late June) we would have went OVER HALF A YEAR, without a single unique added and also (spoiler) the datamines don’t seem to reveal any new uniques either

So Ludia without putting much thought at all into this, just said “screw it” and made a creature, that seems to have originaly been intended as a legendary, a unique

Now why do i think it was meant to be a legendary. well it’a the coloration

Now hear me out looking at hybrids and superhybrids alike, it seems that mainly from epic to unqiue, the coloration often fits with the rarity

Just look at rixis’s frill, lasmus’s/purutaur’s/pork chops’s
…stripes, the general look of scaphotator… they all have some form of yellow as a pretty major part of their coloration

The same applys to:

Legendarys like therium, diloboa, diplove, nodotitan, alloraptor, poukai with dark redish, even black and purple ish coloration

And uniques with mainly green coloration(sometime with additions of brown/black) thor, daryx, lania, maxima, skoona…

Now obviosly theres exeptions to this but a hybrids coloration is very often at least partly based on it’s rarity

Now i actualy saw an image of compso’s coloration(won’t be posting it for obvios reasons) and it’s kinda that red u would see in a legendary.

Now you might be like, “well it’s just diplo g2’s coloration”, again not gonna lie you’d problably be right, but the general coloration still doesen’t seem realy all that simialr to the very bright red of diplo g2, but rather one that you would see in a legendary. And now the more important factor in the coloration. It doesen’t have green. Again uniques have green and compy is green basicly on the entirety of it’s body. And ludia i can never deny has an amzaing artist team, they’d problably manage to somehow incorporate green into the model, if it was always intended to be unique. But if it wasn’t(looking at diplo g2’s other hybrid) there problably wouldn’t be much green

So in conclusion i know this is an oddly spesific theory, but ye i think compso was intended to be legendary, but due to lack of uniques they put 0 thought into this and made it unique

Now my 2nd theory is posibly to quickly introduce flocks into the endgame

This one would make even less scense, i still think the 1st one makes some scense if this one is true it would be just awfull on ludia’s part. Cuz i think it would make more scense to add flocks to some not so important lower rarity creatures first, to test it out see if it needs any changes. then add it to the endgame

You can also slightly change this theory a bit and we have something somewhat logical again(and again something that would have 0 thought on ludia’s part) and it’s that (spoiler) datamines reavel no new creatures with flock mechanics so they just made compso unique so the mechanic is in the endgame and doesen’t realy have to revisited to add it into the endgame

(For either options for the 2nd theory it would make way more scense to just scrap dodocevia as an insostran hybrid and make it an edaphoce s-hybrid)

So this is why i think non superhybrid uniques are bad and why i think compso was originaly meant to be a legendary and then just ended up being rushed into a unique without much thought put in

And heres how compso could be fixed

And now again suprise suprise, from the 5min i spent thinking theres no good way of doing it

  1. Is to delay compso from the update and make an annoucment saying it would be legendary(and then give us the option to refund diplo g2 dna and coin that was used to get it above lvl 15)

  2. Make this be the only, and i mean THE ONLY non superhybrid unique, this imo is a pretty huge mistake, and cuz it’s a creatures rarity, it kinda can’t get fixed, so it may as well be the first and last time this exact mistake is made

And i honestly don’t know how else this could actualy be solved

Now i know i’ve made this entire thing sound SO bad, and for me it is. But i actualy ran a poll on reddit on if people are fine with compso’s rarity and i’m actualy in the minority

(And yes i am the masprobleme dude)

So i’m gonna make another poll on here to see about it on here, and i’m gonna be a bit more spesific on the actual question

Would you preffer compsocaulus to be unique or legendary?
(If you just kinda had the option to do it lets say mid development or something not now after it’s added)

  • Unqiue
  • Legendary

0 voters

Anyway i’m finaly done with this stupid tiny theropod pretending to be a frog, now onto the… overcomplexety?(it’s a word now) and RNGness of alert moves and then onto the little balancing that was done

The problem with alert abilitys

Now i don’t think that the alert mechanic it self is a problem, not at all.

The problem occurs when u look at alert stun for example, from what i understood it’s a swap in move, so what if i swap Bumpy in when his low health his gonna have a lower chance to stun. Honestly that just sucks, adds way more RNGness then needed

Or super distraction, it states that it hits highest dmg opponent for 0.5 and all opponents for 1×, so is it gonna hit one opponent twice?

So u get what i mean they are realy complex and the patch notes make them realy difficult to understand, we still have realy no idea what rally truly does, what reinforce means, what return to hand means. Alert decoy even sacrafises hp? Is it gonna sacrifise one flock member as a third of the hp?, 1 third of total hp from all flock members?, 1 third from only one flock member?

The names realy don’t help either, like Restricted group distraction

Why not just call it Short group distracting impact? Way more simple and easy to understand and it’s legit exactly that

So, my true problem so far was the fact that, these moves in general are just realy confusing, and the patch notes do a pretty poor job at explaining how they work. But moves being complex, realy isn’t bad, but the unnesecary RNG with many of them is

But i have another pretty major problem with stuff like courages alert in particilar. So what it does is, it gives you extra crit chance while secure and a dodge when threatend, now with flocks it’s problably gonna function pretty well(but we’ll have to see), but don’t u want dodge when u have actual hp to save? And then extra attack to finish the oponent with big impacts and rampages when they’re off delay? Again this is all realy complex so i could be completly wrong here especialy with flocks so we’ll just have to wait and see

I’m keeping this one a bit shorter cause again all of this is just realy confusing

My last complaint is some of

the balancing

Now considering that i’ve wanted both rixis and monometro to get nerfed for way too long i’m overall not disapointed by the balancing, rather this is just me kinda going over a few minor improvments that could have been done to the balancing, what i think are the flaws of this update’s balancing and most importanly how much balancing was actualy left out

Monometro nerf:

1st of all FINALY, 2nd of all it was a bit too much, think we can all agree, imo if the rampage became a piercing or a cunning one, and mono lost all distraction resistance i honestly think it’d be fine

Rixis nerf:

Again FINALY. I honestly don’t think that the speed nerf and the decel resistance nerf make too much of a diffrence, i’d honestly revert the hp buff, cause rixis still has some realy nice dmg out put and double stun and is realy tanky. I know some people have been saying rixis was killed, to me it seems this simply isn’t true

Also Ludia said they’ve actualy looked at the statistics, Ludia could u do this more often for balancing i’m sure something like the red rat would have some pretty
intresting results

Green rat buff:

This one i feel like is somewhat unnesecary, especialy for how buffed this thing actualy got. For me the green rat never realy felt week, it’s just that, the extra hp the red rat had, was just enough to make it ever so slightly better and lets be honest, in a resilient meta obvoiosly people will preffer shatering moves over cunning ones. Now DC’s pretty exploitable weakness was that after swap in it would be pretty vulnerable to deceleration, if it didn’t kill u ofcourse. Now the green rat doesen’t have that weakness, and it also has more dmg, and more speed.

I like that the green rat will now most likely rightfully be more powerfull then DC, but i think this was way more on DC being too strong for, u know the easyest to make legendary in the game and it needing a nerf. Rather then the green rat being incredebly weak and needing(thats also a word now) such a huge buff. I’m not gonna jump to conclusions before the update even drops but i honestly think that the green rat will be nerf lvl bad

Skoona buff:

Now skoona was clearly intended to be a raid dino(like skoola), but as i mentioned in my unique balancing post a few months ago, Ludia basicly went with the safe route of the other 2 towers, but what makes them raid and pvp viable is also there fierce resilient nature. Which skoona isn’t it’s a cunning resilient. So instead of taking skoola and using lets say sono’s vulnerability, counter and devestation to add some offences to skoola’s impresive defensive raid viabilty.
They did the exact same thing they’ve with elania, they just said screw it to any realy instresting raid viability and went with this way more pvp oriented type creature.
Now don’t take me wrong, being both pvp and raid viable is awesome. But it’s pretty disapointing to me seeing a creature with so much potential in raids, coming from 2 such intresting hybrid parents being taken in this wierder pvp direction
I think it is gonna retain some raid viability but not as much as i’d like to

Anyway as i said the main problem with the balancing in this update is the one thats missing

Magnus, hadros still realy dominant, morty still cleansing on cunnings, diplo and rhino still dominant in tournaments, (unpopular one) dracorex and maybe even nasuto still realy annoyong in rare only tournaments, the red rat still a pain…

And theres countless buffs thay are missing but the balancing that was done is far from awfull

So in conclusion is 2.7 actualy worse then 2.3?

I overall don’t think it is

It’s introducing realy cool creatures(exept compso), intresting new mechanics(will need some work but they’re pretty cool)

And while i do think that the bad(with that i mean hybrid uniques) in 2.7 might be slightly worse then the bad in 2.3, i think we can all agree that the balancing in this update is miles ahead od 2.3, the new mechanics are way better then what? Short ranges?

So overall i’ve underestemated this update originaly while theres defenetly flaws i don’t think the update is horrible

Cause i know my explenations are about as good as the 2.7 patch notes explaining the return to hand thing, feel free to ask any additional questions if you didn’t understand my original explenation of anything

And yeah again i’m a non native english speaker so sorry for any spelling mistakes

9 Likes

Sorry finger sliped will edit and finish the topic

Edit 1: i finished with the general topic still fixing minor spelling mistakes

Edit 2: i think i fixed most of the stuff

1 Like

I honestly think it’s fine being a unique. Ludia was trying something with non hybrid legendaries with para lux, and they are sort of continuing that trend with this one. It’s very much a cunning and if following the power scales would net itself to under dracocerato in terms of strenght. Easy to make unique that may put a huge dent in the thor problem people face. I’m all for ludia making accessible counters to things.

1 Like

I doubt many people will read the novel you wrote but umm… sure, why not

3 Likes

With thor i always thought that changing IC to greater stunning impact would allow the existing cunnings to counter it much better, but lets return to compso being a unique before we get off topic

Again i feel like compso just kinda ruins the endgame s-hybrid perfection of uniques, if it’s the only one and either doesen’t get an s-hybrid of it’s own, or is just polled off amazingly i’d be semi fine with it, but i feel like ludia just screwed them selfs up with that s-hybrid now

Also this isn’t replying to anybody but i stayed up till 1am to write this, so yeah i’ll problably be replaying again in maybe 7h so yeah

Anyway goodnight depending on ur timezone

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It’s not even out yet. Chill

6 Likes

we’ll have to wait and see how compso plays out to truly know if Ludia shot themselves in the foot with this one. We don’t have stats for any of the new creatures and the new abilities are a bit confusing yet. There’s a lot of unknowns. could this lead into apex rarity hybrids later down the line? possibly. fusing 2 lv 25 creatures to make an apex hybrid is a very real possibility now. one i’m actually intrigued by tbh.
it could end up working out just fine and we’re letting old nostalgia cloud our judgement and instill fear that the game is being ruined by ludia trying to do something different.

3 Likes

They way I look at it Ludia is attempting to find a way to get the bulk of the playerbase ie the casuals up the ladder to help with match making cause they can’t create new end game players out of thin air and match making needs fixed 2 years ago.

You can see it over and over again through what they’ve done this last year… apex’s and their ability to be unlocked, add sarco and monole and you almost have a team of capable of leveling up and hitting end game relatively quickly.

And a team that was easily accessible and worth while to boost. So more money for Ludia.

But the biggest complaint was oh sarco and mono are to strong for their Rarity. If they were a “unique” it would be understandable.

Now in the same patch those nerfs happen we get a unique that’s not a super hybrid. Imagine that.

6 Likes

It’s just a game. It’s cool that Ludia is venturing out. I don’t think this is lazy, this could be setting up for Apex fusing. But seriously. It’s just a game. The developers can do what they want with the game. The fact that it isn’t a super-hybrid makes no difference honestly. It’s still 200 compy DNA and 500 diplocaulus g2 which won’t be an easy farm considering compy will probably be exclusive just based on the general trend.

I think this update is better than 2.3

1 Like

I think it’s worse for 3 simple reasons:

  1. No changes to matchmaking (especially in Shores). This really needs to be prioritized before they lose even more players.30/30 isn’t working and being taken advantage of by trophy spammers. Every season there will be less players in Gyro which then affects every other arena with overpowered teams.

  2. Doubling down on Swap meta and SIA without providing any USABLE counterattacks or abilities.

  3. Not balancing main creatures used in Gyro and above (and soon to be lower arenas too) - APEX. The boost shuffle is going to cause havoc in lower arenas and Gyro/Shores will be even more unbearable with players adding 3+ fully boosted and level Swappers.

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These are problems Ludia brought upon itself. The trophy system, Shores, and monthly resets run counter to this goal. Team strength has increased everywhere but trophy progression has been stunted. With the reshuffle? We’ll get way more max boosted meta teams that won’t be able to progress.

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Probably like

And Run ability
I mean automatic swapping

I cant hold it back anymore

JWA fans after every update

:face_with_raised_eyebrow: :unamused: :triumph:

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I think that sums up every update after 2.0…but I remember everybody excited about every update pre-2.0

Issues with player base are that Ludia continues to not address problems with the game that have compounded after every update after 2.0. This update is the usual shiny object (compy) while neglecting matchmaking, increasing SIA without counters, etc. Theres a reason this game continues to lose players after every update…

8 Likes

I agree with you but see it a slightly different way…Ludia went all in with boosts for revenue but realized over time that only the whales were buying them. That’s why they added boosts to drops to accelerate casual base as fodder for whales. Boosts were a short term strategy that backfired when they could have just increased player levels, increased creature levels (thus requiring more coins to buy and accrue), etc.

There’s 3 types of players in the game:

1 The Whales (4-5% of entire player base that will buy every exclusive DNA offer, spend money on HC and boosts, etc.)

  1. The Spenders (20-30% of entire player base that pays for VIP, spends minimally on bundles, etc.)

  2. The Casual (rest of player base that are strictly F2P and won’t ever spend a dime on the game).

Ludia continues to cater to #1 while neglecting #2 when #2 are the only potential segment that can move into #1.

2 Likes

But then again, wasn’t 2.3 the one who actualy ruined the match making in shores?

But yeah with the green rat buff the swap meta will be worse

Still i think a mononetro and rixis nerf are huge for midgame players and tournaments and a skoona buff will at least make it useable

Ok i was in ur position legit till the last update. With how many problems(cough cough mathmaking) ludia not only doesen’t adress but straight up ignores is just ridicilus. It’s just how paitent u actualy are, and 2.7 was the breaking point for me, when they just kinda poped uniques by adding non superhybrid ones.

The swap meta still sucks
Apexes are still replacing uniques and are too easy to obtain
The alliance chat is still bugged

New creatures are always nice but thats the only reason i have to still play the game, honestly if luida’s artist team sucked, they problably wouldn’t have a player base with what the game has come to. The new creatures serve as just that lil content to keep players intertained in the mess that the game has become

4 Likes

I have a feeling Ludia is doing this because right now there are no uniques with flock mechanism and yes it might come later but it also helps newer players get decent creatures. We have no Idea how good the non-superhybrid unique is going to be. Likely weaker than most cunning but easier to make too. I’m quite happy with this update simply with the nerfs. And the flock mechanism also seems really cool. I understand most of the player base is still upset over the matchmaking but honestly it seems like Ludia prefers to make the game more interesting for the new players. A lot of the things they do seems to be focused on the new player base. The balances being the only thing for the old player base. I don’t mind this either.