Erlidominus is an exception, most pure cunnings don’t resist decel, and probably shouldn’t. 10% “works”, but deceleration is a binary effect: either your opponent is faster or you are, it doesn’t matter by how much. So if you decrease deceleration to the point that cunnings remain faster than resilients, what’s the point of slowing them at all?
Good point. Perhaps we can lower resilients’ attack to the point where fierces can survive a strike and rampage. For example let’s take diplodocus vs allo gen 2 in a tourney. Allo g 2 normally gets knocked out by RS and Decelarting rampage. But if Diplodcus’ attack was 1400 or lower, allo gen 2 would win, and it would be a victory for diplodocus only if it crits
I pointed this out earlier. It’s mainly the combination of moderate damage and a lot of multipliers that also help Resilient beat fierce.
Exactly, Fierces are supposed to have the most attack, resilients with most health, and cunnings do what they do, have the highest speed.But resilients should have either the same attack of most cunnings, around 1300ish, because cunnings have rather high attack, and fierces have balanced Hp
Lowering damage output is a great step I think. For Diplodocus specifically, I would actually change the rampage to an impact instead of changing the damage stat. Otherwise you’re forced to use up your strong attack to beat 3000 hp cunnings, which is a very significant nerf. The impact means that it can’t beat most fierce dinos, while still dealing 3000 damage over two strikes. This does mean it does more damage on turn 1 though, but they can always give it a delay I guess. But I totally agree with the principle that many resilients need to have their damage output lowered.
If we’re going to stick with this rock, paper, scissors system which I don’t see Ludia backing out of at this point. They need to go all the way into such a system.
I think the easiest change would be one where damage vs the counter class is reduced. This would not only fix the issue of resilients killing fierce but also help against nitro Thor’s one shorting under leveled counters.
Now I Wouldn’t want this system as punishing as say pogo where it turns into a swap fest. Sitting with a set up Dino vs a counter to deal a sizable chunk of damage should still be best option as opposed to swapping.
It just needs to be enough to flip enough matches without being to punishing.
Never liked the classes they forced. hate getting like 3 cunnings just to lose vs their full team of resilients and so on
This might be difficult to implement with hybrid classes. Not to mention that some dino’s given class doesn’t quite match what they can do.
The class system combined with boosts is what killed cunnings. For that class, it’s a speed competition while sacrificing everything else and with Resilients being able to take everything about them away in one move and some of them having moves that completely negate the speed battle altogether (swap) it’s an abysmal arms race. Now we have Resilients with better speed-up moves than the cunnings themselves to boot Magnus has a priority speed-up that gets it to 171 speed. Who has a 172 speed anything on their squad? It’s only getting harder out here for them. Change is desperately necessary.
Only 2 creatures can get their speed to 172, and that is velociraptor and Gorgonops. They need 20 speed boosts, which result in +40 speed, reaching 172 speed. But then, they wont have the health.
Leaving their HP at a dismal level and open to be one shot.
Haast eagle and Deinonychus can do it too
oh right, thanks
While it might be difficult I’m sure a system could be devised faster then Ludia has addressed this current metas issues. I mean we’re at like 8 months now.
And ultimately I’d rather have a tried and true system then just moving numbers and class specific buffs Ludia will likely screw up anyway.
Great post, with a lot of valid points.
I feel like higher hitting resilient moves at this point should really be wildcard moves, unless the resilient dino has no armor. The reason deceleration moves were balanced before was because that was all they did - speed down. Superiority strike was intended to cleanse distraction, and caused minimal damage. Now we have 1.5x and even 2x damage, and some of these dinos have exclusively resilient moves. In addition to this, resilients were low attack, which made fierce able to counter them better. Cunnings are too heavily countered to do anything.
An example: Dio. Dio, when against a cunning, has 30% armor, can throw up a priority shield for an extra 50% armor, followed by a 2x damage attack that perfectly counters a cunning, likely resulting in a KO. Compare this with our fierce-cunning counter attacker, Poukan, who has only 1x moves (for no apparent reason) and relies strictly on dodge/distraction with NO other move types to help him. Dio can still fight fierce dinos with his speed reduction moves - Poukan can not fight resilients. At all.
Another thing is that, as someone else mentioned, cunnings are the only ones without a move that can cause more than 2x damage.
Fierce have damage-increasing moves, to cause 2.5 damage attacks.
Resilients have Devastation 3x, the highest in the game, and can combine Vulnerability with that move for further damage output. I honestly don’t agree with giving resilients either of these moves, as they damage the class system further, by saying ‘resilients can have high damage attacks, just like fierce’.
Before we had this plethora of resilient moves, it was actually possible for a cunning to leave a resilient dino with only a sliver of HP, just as resilients now do to fierce. It also encouraged tactics, since people had to learn the moves of their opponent to avoid taking too much damage, instead of just slamming a resilient rampage into them and calling it a day.
For the tldr; resilients have been given too much power and far, far too much attention. More power needs to go to fierce, more unique moves need to be given to cunnings, and resilient dinos need a nerf in their abilities full stop.
There’s so many subclasses and creature types that I struggle with a blanket statement of “nerf all resilient damage” etc. turtles for example have devastation but are handicapped for 2 full turns on damage output…which in JWA is a lot of time. I agree that most resilient moves on most creatures being replaced with superiority would be a good start, but there’s likely many creatures that would benefit from being unique and valuable BECAUSE they still retain resilient rampage or impact. For example I could see rhino losing resilient impact for superiority impact, yet something like dioraja (a unique designed to shut down dodge) should keep resilient.
Ive been working on another rework project and i can tell you that resilients got the most rework.
It’s pretty on the money there.
But as I’ve said before, this has been a long standing issue that’s going to require massive amount of rework to truly balance everything without necessarily nerfing anything.
The Fierce creatures need a high speed resistance, but the speed stat itself also needs to be percentage based like Health and Attack. It’s the only way to ensure Resilients can’t beat what are supposed to be their own counters, but at the same time, making the speed stat percentage based guarantees nitro Fierce creatures are a thing of the past.
The Resilients with Swap Prevention resistance need to either lose it entirely, or more creatures need On Escape abilities to compensate.
All Dodging abilities should have a 100% chance to Dodge. I’m fine with Resilient moves decelerating and removing Dodge because that’s what it’s supposed to do, but it’s absolutely insane that normal Fierce creatures can still punch through it just because the game feels like giving the player with the Cunning creature some bad RNG. And so that Evasive Stance doesn’t get left in the dust, it could have 100% to Dodge 100% of the damage, creating a nice balance between the three (Cloak doubles the damage, Sidestep grants a speed increase, and Evasive Stance avoids all Resilient, Precise or Definite damage).
The suggestion of increasing the speed gap is something that had been brought up before, but I couldn’t remember why. I just remembered that it was to reduce speed ties, since there’d be more numbers to choose from, especially when it comes to hybrids. It would also make deceleration resistance more useful, although certain abilities like Group Acceleration would have to be modified a bit.
Yep, I honestly believe that changing the speed boosts (just the speed boosts) to be percentage-based rather than a flat two per boost would solve a lot of the problems in the arena. It’s a relatively easy fix, too.