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Ludia, please define a "turn"

Just had a situation where I swapped in my quetz when my opponents dilo did rampage & run into DC. The dodge worked for the rampage out, but not the rampage in - which is technically the same “turn” the way I understand it.

Please illuminate us on how it exactly works or adjust your wording to reflect the true function.

@jorge

EDIT: for the record, I think of a turn as everything that happens between one move selection until you make another move selection.

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Same with instant shield on a Tryko for example. Dilo would do rampage and run (no damage) and a rat will kill the Tryko. So much for invincibility.

In my opinion there’s definitely something wrong with all this.

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This question will most likely be ignored.

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I posted about the shield once, but was surprised when the dodge acted the same way. Clarity would help, but… this is Ludia so I’m not holding my breath.

Normally # of turn = # of moves your opponent uses (including swap in and skip a turn).
There are exceptions like ss and vuln strike.
It is weird.

Hey Tuco, may I ask you to make a bug report for this with more details in the Bug Report section so I could send it off to our team? It’d allow them to take a closer look.

Thanks!

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Like I explained on the last thread, all evidence seems to point to SIAs being counted as their own turns.
It’s the reason a Dracoceratops can be stunned on swapping in, skip it’s SIA, and still attack the next turn.

If you look at it as every move/action apart from counterattacks (they are called “passive abilities” for a reason) is counted as a turn, it all makes perfect sense.
Buffs last based on user turns, while debuffs/cloak/evasion/shields last based on opponent turns. Here RandR (which includes the swap) is one turn, the SIA is its own.

As far as I know, it’s always been this way. For this to be a bug would mean the fundamentals of SIAs would have to change. Especially the way SIAs interact with each other.

So, someone using a rampage & run into a swap in ability gets two “turns” in one. Which is why I am asking the source what they consider a turn since, regardless of it working as intended, hardly seems fair.

Then they should. Ludia has shown they’re willing to change " fundamentals", like cloak and dodge.

Also, I just checked and monostego’s stun has a 1 turn delay, yet when you swap in with the stunning strike (a turn your above described scenario) it is unavailable until you go once more… isn’t that two turns?

Anytime an SIA is used, that’s 2 turns in one. Swapping by itself is a turn, unless it’s part of a move.
This is sort of unfair, since if you swap in a non-SIA dino at the same time as an opponent’s Swap-in Stun, you miss a whole turn. But it’s gone practically unopposed all this while.

Regarding Monostegotops, good question. It appears that SIAs, while counted as separate turns, do not contribute to delays on moves, if any. This applies to all SIA dinos.
This isn’t necessarily a problem, since it could easily be said to operate as an extension of the logic that, while swaps are considered turns, they don’t contribute to delays either.

Again, this has been a thing for as long as SIAs have been a part of the game, and for the devs to change it when there have been hardly any complaints seems highly unlikely. It wouldn’t be very hard to adapt to the situation, perhaps even make use of it yourself.

I would think there haven’t been any complaints because things like shields and dodge used to work for both attacks, and the only time there was a complaint was when the shield or dodge stayed when one player switched to a non-SIA dino.

I’d still like to hear from Ludia,… but I know better.
Having it count as a turn for one thing but not another is garbage. But again, Ludia.

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I would say that in a round, each player gets one turn. Their turn is comprised of all the moves involved with the “attack” selected. The actions of the turn and whether they occur in the current round or the next round is determined by whether the player went first or second.

I would think in the event of a player popping a shield;
If the player went first, then the shield should remain (unless removed by an attack) until the end of the round regardless of the number of attacks made by the opponent’s dinosaurs. Then at the beginning of the next round the shield is removed.
If the player went second, the shield should remain (unless removed by an attack) until the end of that round regardless of the number of attacks made by an opponent’s dinosaurs in that round. Then the shield would be removed at the beginning of the next round.

Of course in either of these cases if the dinosaur that created the shield is killed or swapped out the shield would also be removed.

If the wording said the shield is for one attack then the shield would be removed after absorbing or reducing just one damaging attack and any attacks after that would not be blocked or absorbed. Which none of these effects define duration as one attack.

So to me one turn should be the complete set of actions by a player or opponent’s dinosaur(s) that occur in one round.

Since turns haven’t been clearly defined, turn could very well mean attack. We can only infer from our in-game experiences and move descriptions what a turn means.

We know that a turn is something carried out by one dino at a time (as opposed to a round) because of the “end turn” button when the user is faster and stunned. That means any move the user could have used would have been counted as a turn.

The misconception about turns being the same thing as rounds probably comes from the way debuffs, evasion moves and shields work. For example, if you use Short Defence after the opponent acted first, it doesn’t count the turn it was used as one of the 2 turns it’s supposed to last for. The explanation would be that it hadn’t seen its first round yet, and hence, since turn equals round it should wait for 2 rounds to finish, which it seems to do.
However, the turn=round logic does not work for buffs, like Ferocity.
This is why I say offensive buffs last based on user turns, while defensive ones and debuffs last based on opponent turns. This way, they still last for said number of turns, it’s just that the turns are counted differently, based on relevance. Because an attack buff is only counted for the number of turns that it actually tries to do damage, and a shield is only counted for the number of turns where it gets try and block damage.
Same with evasion, crit buffs, etc.

From the “end turn” scenario, unless you’re pinned you can swap, which would also constitute your turn. Also, if you swap in bleed while a non-SIA creature swaps in, the bleed damage kicks in, signifying that the bleeding creature has carried out a turn. So swap=turn.
Unless the swap is a part of a move, obviously. Anyone who says otherwise should entertain the possibility of Cautious Strike being counted as 3 or 4 turns.

And from the interactions of SI-stun with other slower SIAs, we know SIAs are counted as turns too. This is because you can be stunned for your SIA. And the description of SI-stun says stunned for a turn. Therefore, SIA=turn.

If you follow this logic, none of these “bugs” are bugs. Apart from that one where Evasive Stance lasted for an extra turn.

Unless you look at mono and the stun delay.

As thorough as you like to be, you’re not Ludia, who I would like to hear from.

I remember not long ago the opposite happened : Invincibility shield lasts for 1 more turn after these “and run move + swap in rampage” situation.

I guess by fixing that bug, they created this bug instead.

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Yes I think the swap in stun scenario could explain quite well.

If both players swap in a new creature, one of them have swap in stun and the other doesn’t have any swap in move, we can observe when the stun triggered, whether the other creature will be stunned for a whole turn, or could immediately recover. If it’s the latter, we can say that they treat swap in as a turn itself on top of the original turn.

If not, since we know that swap-in move is considered a turn - because swap in stun would stun the creature and prevent them from using swap-in move, but they can immediately recover - that means swap in a creature with swap-in move will actually give you 1 “extra turn” comparing to creature without swap-in move.

I must say that I’m pretty confused about the whole thing, too. Haven’t really had stun/shield problems, but definitely distraction confusion. Perhaps I’m just not paying attention, but it seems like distraction doesn’t always cover counter attacks?

Like…a dino, think a Miragaia, got swapped in, to which I happened to use instant distract. I was pretty excited, and knew I could get a hit in without dying. (Since Mira was faster than my dino) And what happens? Their attack was reduced by 90%, but the counter was full damage.

I know for sure that I’ve been distracted before, and had both primary and counter attacks reduced. I’m just very confused as to why sometimes a distract will cover both the primary and counter on my opponent’s end, but is consistently fully distracted for me every time. (I assume the combo of moves/“turns” is more consistent on my end?)

We also get it the other way round if an opponent swaps out on DC whilst it is swap locked the swap lock doesn’t clear on turn 3 because it didn’t count the swap out as a turn. Meaning with DC you can rampage in, that’s ok, you acute stun, opponent swaps out on the next rampage and DC is still locked in for another turn.

Ludia have a counting issue I think. Instant invincibility for 2 turns on swaps, dodge dropping after 2 turns on a swap, 2 turn swap prevent lasting 3 on a swap out…:roll_eyes:

That’s easy to explain. Miragaia’s turn is over after it uses SDS, so the Distraction wears off. I faced Miragaias with my Suchotator sooo many times when it was first introduced, that was one annoying matchup.
Remember that Counter-attacks aren’t separate turns, being a passive ability. They aren’t treated as an action.
As for the “other situations”, those were probably either multiple-turn Distraction moves, or 1-turn ones that do damage.