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All of my characters are level 12, with the exception of the new characters I received recently, who are level 10. I am not exaggerating when I say that the last time I played a pvp battle against a equal or lower level group was months ago; if I’m really lucky, I get paired up with 13,13,13,13 …but most often it’s a mixture of 13s,14s, and 15s. Very rarely I’ll play against a team with an 11 or 12, but even then, their average level is still higher than mine with a couple of 14s or 15s.

Now, this is not to say I never win. I can usually win, on average 1 or 2 matches out of 5. In fact, this morning I beat a group of 14,14,15,15. But, winning against higher level groups seem to rely way too heavily on the RNG, especially getting first turn with a tank (as well as the RNG of getting a good group to begin with.)

Anyway, I’m wondering if someone can help me understand what the reason for why I’m consistently getting paired against higher level groups. It’s obviously not happening to everyone, since it’s not happening to the folks I’m playing against…lol. So, there must be a reason. Is it one or more of these?

  • It’s based on trophy points instead of average level? (I’m around 2700-2850 trophy points in the past few weeks.)
  • You need a subscription to have better matchmaking?
  • I’m at the “bottom end” of the leveling curve for active players in the game? (In other words, there are no level 10-12 players active right now?)

I’d be interested in any possible solutions because “Battle” is my favorite thing about the game, but it gets frustrating on special events getting enough wins in the time allowed (I can’t play hours and hours a day) and it also gets frustrating after a while. A high difficulty is nice sometimes, but not all the time.

Finally, I wouldn’t mind playing against 12s and 13s …but, I’d honestly prefer to play against bots than groups that are 2+ levels higher than me…


@Amadeus, your first hypothesis is correct. Trophy points are used for non-event match-making. [Events are somewhat different] Players are generally matched within 200 trophies of each other whenever possible. Also, the points awarded or deducted after the battle are directly related to the difference in trophy counts between the two players.

You know, I just realized it’s been a while since I did one of the special events (e.g., the 3-day event which ends with you getting a legendary/Silverhand weapon.) So, maybe I’ve just been noticing it with “regular matchmaking”.

So, I guess the only way to get better matchmaking for me would be to intentionally lose a lot of matches so as to be down with players in the 11-13 range as opposed to the 13-15 range where I’m at now, huh?

I wish it was based on level. I’d rather have better matches and get 1-5 trophy points than how it works for me right now. I don’t really have many options other than to keep feeding those in the 13-15 range I guess.

Anyway, for the “special event” matchmaking, it’s based on level then?

When I went down intentionally to 2200 I was facing players at lvl 11~13 in majority. Down to 1800 players were at 9~12. Just as a sidenote, other than winning for objectives or to keep myself where I wanted to, I was killing 3 heroes for daily chests filling and letting my opponents win due to fire.

Regarding event trophy count, it seems that now it’s way harder to lower your score since the last patch. You will get either your highest season count or the last event you were in count, whichever is higher, and progress from there. If you win you get an invisible amount of trophies, if you lose you will only lose points if the opponents are close to you (we don’t know how close) in their own invisible trophy count.

I hope I have helped.

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@Amadeus, Event matchmaking is done somewhat different than regular Battle Mode PvP, however, event matchmaking is still based upon trophy count. The algorithms would take a while to explain. If you are interested I would suggest searching the forums for ‘event matchmaking’. There are a number of recent forums which thoroughly discuss these algorithms.

Using levels to match players was attempted early in the evolution of Waterdeep PvP, but it proved unfavorable and was quickly rejected by players. It was quickly realized that player strength and ability are determined almost entirely by gear. Hero level has little to do with ability. This problem was compounded when players began taking advantage of this, For instance, some players have very well-equipped heroes, but keep them at level 10 for various reasons. [As a side note, there is no intrinsic benefit to improving heroes beyond level 10, only slight ability adjustments are added] Such heroes were routinely being matched against other level 10 heroes, who they easily overwhelmed. Word spread and other players, myself included, discontinued leveling heroes. This unfortunately made the system insufferable for those unaware of this tactic. The developer quickly switched to the trophy system, and has been unsuccessfully tinkering with it ever since.

Also, as another side note, I believe we are on the verge a new PvP season. Event matching is almost certain to be chaotic again once the season resets.

I have to say that I don’t agree completely that level has no benefit after level 10. With close battles I’ve noticed a big difference in how often the lower level character “misses” the higher level character (which makes a big aggregate difference!) Also, it appears to play a role in how easily a character can “resist” the effect of an ability. For example, the bard’s charm ability appears to land less often against characters higher level than the bard.

Now, if I’m just imagining this or if it was just bad RNG making me think it, then I’ll defer to those who know for sure. But, the “to hit” chance was what I always thought was the benefit of higher levels and at least in many of the matches I fight, it can be the difference between win and lose (I can’t tell you how many matches I’ve won or lost with the final character standing having <5% health.)

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@Amadeus, while it seems illogical that improving hero level or reknown would not be beneficial, this is the case for WoW. Instead, as I noted above, hero level matters little in WoW. As an example I have attached a photo of a level 16 Wizard. The stats shown in white are her stats at Level 16. The stats in green indicate the minor amount each of these stats would increase if her level were improved to level 17. The increase for each stat would only be approx. 3%. This minor increase is the only benefit of improving hero level. [Note: with the exception of lower level heroes needing to increase to use less common items - which stops at level 10]

Alternatively, increasing a common item by one level will increase the related stats a similar amount, When multiplied 6 items x 16 levels this number becomes significant. Additionally, at certain equipment levels, the multipliers for effects improves, which directly impacts the ability to cast and resist effects. This is likely what you are observing when the bard’s charm ability appears to fail against a higher level hero.

@Amadeus Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but the 4 stats in the game that increase with gear and leveling are what determine everything you are talking about re the performance of a character in battle.

Some arguments put forth to level or not to level, as explained, are an attempt by players to affect matchmaking. While leveling does increase the power of a character, it disproportionately affects matchmaking by added little real strength.

There are other legitimate reasons not to level a character.

I’m looking at a price tag of 7000 gold to level my first legendary item. That’s a big one imo. I don’t spend real much. That’s a lot of gold. That legendary all by itself is a huge, huge increase in my stats and for $ is way better than spending the same amount to level a character.

Secondly, the points given from leveling the gear that contribute to leveling the character do nothing to strengthen the character if he/she is not using that gear. Now, all gear reach equivalent stats at maximum irregardless of the rarity. My common weapon will be equivalent to my legendary, some day. So, while I am not using that common weapon, my character is getting many points which can be used to level, for little gain, at a great cost.

Once a character has as a practical matter exhausted leveling his gear, the only way forward is to start leveling the character.

Ignoring the matchup arguments, a choice between leveling gear or the character boils to the most advantage per $. I think ultimately the game designers will work out the event mismatch algorithms. Sandbaggers who intentionally lose matches to manipulate the system have already been nerfed to a great degree.

I think you are just hitting way above your weight.

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@Wolvierine until recently I did the same thing. I maintained my count below 4000 trophies by losing to weaker event players, while filling my chest slots. Unfortunately, one of the recent changes [obscuring trophy count until after the match] has made it increasingly difficult to tell which opponents are in Event Mode and which are in Battle Mode. This, combined with other changes in the recent update have finally compelled me to move back into the proper league.

Unfortunately, this prevents me from assisting weaker players in this fashion.

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Yah, I did it purely for testing reasons. I understood what they did, and I agree with you when you say these changes only favor only players using battle mode instead of ToM. As a sidenote, 1 shot ppl isn’t fun at all, even with faster queue times.

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