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Monolorhino and DC - good exf how Ludia fails the arena meta

Hey all,

I would like to demonstrate/discuss how Ludia fails to make a good arena with nice unique and legendary counters.

First of all, what actually matters is how equal dinos are on lvl 26 to eachother before boosts. The exception is % based dmg which cant be boosted. That means that just polling on the forum how many people hates/hated dracoceratops is a really lousy measure for determining how overpowered dracoceratops really was.

Also, Ludia should aim to make sure that there are always possibilities to counter other dinos. Unfortunatley this was a big already before with Indoraptor 2, and now the problem is even larger. Although the Ardentimaxima change overall is good (because it is so overpowered with the infinite rampage) it means that 1 counter for indoraptor gen2 is gone. With Dracoceratops “gone”, the second counter for Indoraptor gen 2 is now gone. One reason for the lack of counters of Indoraptor 2 is the lack of nullyfying skills among tanks. For this update Ludia had a great possibility to make new dinosaurs countering Indoraptor gen 2 but they completely failed. Especially Monolorhino had great potential making an obvious counter to Indoraptor 2, but instead they make a dino filling absolutely 0 gaps in the current situation. I am therefore very surprised with how bad choices Ludia has made with it’s skill set.

What kind of dino to you need to counter Indoraptor gen 2? It isn’t really that hard. You need:
Slow + nullification + armor + distraction immunity + tank. That is all - and they had it possibly coming with Monolorhino. Rhino got slow, armor and is tanky, Monolometrodon got immunity and nullification. What do they put together???

2 distraction moves, leathal wound and definate impact…?? Oh my god what a fail.

Ludia is doing a great job making other rarity levels equal. A good example of that was the epic skill tournament where every Dino has a fairly good counter. For example:

Allosaurus gen 2 is countered by Secodontosaurus nad Mammoth,
Secodonto is countered by Mammoth and Kentrosaurus
Mammoth is countered by Diplodocus and swap-ins like Alanqa and Pachy
Diplodocus is countered by Allosaurus and Pachycephalosaurus
Alanqa and Pachy are countered by Carbonemys and Allosaurus gen2
Carbonemys is countered by Secodontosarus and Mammoth

And so on. Point is there is nothing like that among the unique and ledendary dinosaurs and obviously it seems that Ludia creators are overwhelmed so they fail to make most unique dinosaurs useful (see Stygidaryx but even Diloracheirus now that distractions and stuns are so nerfed.)

So speaking of Dracoceratops again: I know you forum dwellers don’t like to hear it - but Dracoceratops:

  1. Filled an important function vs speedy dinos. While it is true in arena it could be overboosted in dmg - so can your thor, erlidomimus, and so on. Now atleast some of them lost a counter, especially low hp creatures.
  2. Dracoceratops was quite easy to counter. There are plenty of swap.in stunners which completely insignifies DC: Phorusaura, Smilocephalosaurus, Monostegotops etc. On top of that all the long lasting shield creatures such as Grypolyth.
  3. Dracoceratops is not only quite useless now - it also lost its function by all means - people claiming otherwise just doesn’t know about gameplay.

For example: Monostegotops deal 1000 dmg with 20% crit chance + regen. On many creatures that is roughly 25%. On fast speed creatures it is 30%. While DC deals 40% - it is only about 24% on a tragodistis. The biggest role now of Dracoceratops is to counter Tanks such as ardentimaxima - but there are already plenty of tank killers. Then compare the stats between Monostegotops and DC. The choice is obvious.

DC is one-shot by a Postosunchus, but will only deal 15% dmg if it makes a well timed heal. Sorry - but leaving all the “rat feelings” aside there is not a good way of describing that as good.

What Ludia needs to start with to is to start creating counters for the most broken creatures instead of randomly “killing” dinos of. I guess Indoraptor gen 2 will get nerfed too, just like many dinos have become but it is the wrong way to go about it. Create counters of Indoraptor gen 2 with obvious weak spots instead. A good example is above - it is not hard. Create a tank with acceleration and nullifying/precise skills and armor, immune to distraction. And then make it vulnerable to other skills such as stuns, deaccelaration immunity and other tanks.

Have a nice day,
Sys

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Hello

I would like to speak to you about our lord and savior, counters

Seriously though, I just went off on another thread about exactly this and I will show it to anyone who complains about this or that dino being overpowered or needing a nerf.

I’m somewhat confused. The counter dino for indo gen2 you describe is an exact description of maxima, yet you call her nerf justified? They could’ve nerfed her in so many different ways without making it useless against indo2.

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Relatrivley new in the forum, what do you mean by this? Thanks

That’s a deleted post, that’s not what I actually typed.

Also, it doesn’t really need nullification, since Precise Decelerating moves have been confirmed. Just slap one of those on something Immune.

Snekmel:

The problem with the Ardentimaxima skillset was that it could do basically everything, while at the same time impossible to deny because of immunity.While it is true Ardentimaxima was a great counter against Indogen 2 it was not countered by anything really, possibly Trykosaurus and Grypolyth however only by extremely small margin and untrue if Ardenti would crit. Personally I think Infinite rampage is a pretty OP skill because nothing can escape it. Therefore, creatures having this skill should not also be immune. Another way of nerfing Ardentimaxima would have been to remove parts of its immunity such as making it possible to bleed, become vulnerable or stunnable. I would agree such nerf would perhaps been better.

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I disagree with you. Dracoceratops had to be nerfed because it was one shooting Magna, Erlidom, Spyx and many more unique dinos!

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If now that Dracos swap in has been balanced you find it useless, it only means you used it as a OP crutch.

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I like the part with better countering in the endgame. But i dont think Ludia messed up to hard. Look at all the Uniques out now. Beside Gemini and 1.10 Maxima they looked pretty balanced and had at least 1 counter. Also gemini is one or THE hardest to creat hybrids right now so i dont dig in to much here.
Some uniques are underwhelming and thats sad. Stygi, toura, grypo and the newest member Monorhino (the worst unique balancing joke ever in my eyes).

But i disaggree with your dracocera opinion.
Dracocera was a desing failure that lead to a real balancing problem. Dracocera had no counters. Because we couldnt see it coming. Basicly every single dino in the game had a hidden fivth skill (Instand DSR). And thats a bad desing. Even if you didn’t got your Dracocera in your 4 battle dinos draw. Your enemies has allways to play around it or even worse they need to gamble.

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It was a trade off dino and there is nothing as calling it “balanced now”. Motivation is above. It is onehit by many uniques, there are equal SIA’s more or less with far better stats, and even rares one hitting it with possibility to only 15% HP hit to itself. Calling it balanced is the same way a Stygidaryx is a balanced unique. It was slightly OP before but to claim “you cannot see it coming” is not really true. Often you can get good inidcations of someones lineup after half the game.

I am not saying the game was better with Draco - I am happy to skip it. However, in the context of other overboosted dinos it isn’t all that different. Refusal to see that is refusal to understand how things really looked in a lvl 26 tourney.

1 Like

You can’t compare friendly and tournament fights that exclude boosts with arena. Before 1.10 DC was broken like Stegodeus once was. DC didn’t have real counters. Yeah there were few like Erli that could oneshot it. Basicaly you couldn’t see DC coming if it was played right and player had another full health dino, that wasn’t oneshotable by your dino, for a decoy. In 1.10 DC was less annoying, as less players boosted it to insane damage. Now it’s balanced as it should be. It’s a tool for those games that you have in hand but opponents dino hangs with few hundreds of health and is faster than your dino. With attack increase DC is now better as field dino than swapper.

Ardentis change didn’t solve anything, except that Proceratho can now counter it, though chompers, except Tryko are still easily beaten by Ardentis. If they have no intention to lower its damage as many players suggested, then they should changed Def. Rampage to Def. Impact. This way would still counter Indo g2 and Proceratho while chompers could beat it 1 on 1.

They really hate tank nullifyers as they remove every nullifying moves from them and make glassy nullifyers that are easily beaten by Thor and other hard hitters.

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Lack of Nullifiers is the problem in the Arena now. Lydia didn’t Nerf any viable counters, they remove them from the picture (I am not talking about Dracotops). Monostego was first then Maxima.

You want some counter for both Indos and then you justified Nerfing one of the best counters?
WOW!!!

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This.

Since boosts were introduced, a dino needs to be balanced on 2 aspects now. DC was not, so it got an adjustment. It is still better than it’s OG iteration, but is now balanced for boosts and non boosted play.

You contradict yourself about maxima and indo g2 counters. Maxima was one of the best counters to it because it could remove its evasion and deal decent damage. Maxima’s damage should’ve been the one to take a hit, not the kit. She needs to be able to be beaten by chompy dinos, but still be able to beat speedsters.

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Counter. You keep using that word, I don’t think you understand what that means. Dracoceratops can only be dealt with via swap in ability, which doesn’t even work half the time with SI stun/stun strike, AFTER the opponent knows you have it. If you don’t know your opponent has it, they’re free to whip it out at any point. So by definition, no, Dracoceratops does not have any counters. Even now.

Dracoceratops was nerfed because it was toxic to the game. You are correct in saying that Dracoceratops served a function. Its function to swap in OKHO a speedster, regen, swap out, and come back in to repeat the cycle. It single handedly made most speedsters unviable. In which universe is that healthy? Now, Dracoceratops plays a much more dialed back finisher role, which is what it was INTENDED TO BE, not a swap in skill crutch. It got a huge buff in the forum of huge base damage too, meaning it can be deadly if you can’t OKHO it, which honestly not too many dinos can. AND it can still do the annoying and toxic stun regen swap repeat combo it’s known for. And no, just because you can’t OKHO every erlikospyx under the sun doesn’t mean that DC is useless. Several people use it effectively, with a semblance of skill.

For the first time since 1.5, Dracoceratops is balanced, and the arena isn’t a dreadful place without it. Don’t ruin this for the rest of us.

I agree with the sentiment that counters need to be created for powerful dinos rather than flat out nerfs, but DC is so toxic and uncounterable that something needed to be done.

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The reason It could kill everything is because It has too high damage for a tank. It needed a nerf, but removing definite rampage was not the right balancing decision. No one complained about definite rampage being op on It when first released, in fact, everyone was asking for a buff. So the thing that made It broken was the damage, definitely not definite rampage. All that needs to be done to Maxima is lower it’s damage to a point that allows all relevent chompers to counter It, that’s It. Then It can keep definite rampage and continue to counter dodgers. For me, this ability is a must on it’s kit. When 2 sauropods fuse with secodonto the hybrid deserves the immunity and the good moveset, the balance adjustments should be done to the stats so that It can retain what makes It special and unique.

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I was always annoyed that swap in stun would maybe stun dc… but since the rampage didnt go off it wasnt bound.

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TMO the only players hating DC’s nerf are the ones used to winning most of their battles with it. Now struggling to actually battle a proper fight. I find DC one of the most amusing creatures nowadays. Especially the ones that are highly boosted or obviously used for every kill before nerf. They desperately get swapped in at the most silly times (before your creature can hit or as soon as the health bar is below 50%) failing 9 out of 10 times only to get wiped out almost immediately. If they actually manage to get a kill there’s always a one-shotter in lineup to take it out next turn. Highly amusing, almost makes me pity them… or actually … it does make me pity them😂

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No, it was nerfed because a lot of toxic people asked for it.

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I agree with this so much. Dracoceratop’s isn’t useless like most people make it out to be, you just can’t swap it in and get a free kill now - you have to actually think about when to swap it in and I love it.

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