Ludia Forums

Nerf sarcorixis please!

It just needs a few more counters in its rarity

1 Like

Hence the amargoceph stun immunity. It can safely use invincibility on Sarco when immobilize isn’t up. Maybe give posti a bit of attack

1 Like

True but there need to be more tbh same in uniques and legendaries.

It should be like thyla where it beats mostly what you expect it to win against mainly tanks [tryko, dioraj, mammolania, entelo, Gemini, maxima, grypo] but loses badly to basically everything else [magna, erlidom, rinex, spxs, testa, toura, vexus, rhino, spinocon, Indo, nemys, Orion, tentao, dilorach, dracocerato, Thor]

So it 7/16 so good but not even close best so that round where rixs should fit in maybe less since it’s easier to make

2 Likes

Its still a resilient handily beating fierces in its own rarity. Raptor crushes Rex even though one is a common and the other is an epic. Now I’m NOT saying that every cunning should beat every fierce, or every resilient should beat every cunning. But he classes should count for a lot, especially if they’re in the same rarity. If an epic resilient can beat an epic fierce, then what is even the point of having a class system? Should hybrids also be able to beat normal dinos of their countering class? Should Nodopatosaurus be able to beat T Rex too? And if not, then why are superhybrids any different? At some point, you have to realize that you’re splitting hairs. Hybrid, superhybrid, normal, who cares? They’re all Epics. @PrincipeZutano this is a response to you too.

1 Like

I think sarco should remain resilient with no changes to it’s moveset, then we can focus on making fierce counter It, If It gets fierce strike It becomes more fierce and the matchups more messy, since it’s a stunner i think it’s better to remain resilient and have fierce dinos deal with It. Speedsters aren’t that good against stun so at this point If we want cunning to beat It It gets complicated

So I absolutely agree with giving stun resistance to gorgosuchus, I’d say 50% is low, i think 75% or even 100% would be ideal. As a fierce it should be beating stunners since they are mostly tanks.
Other than that and the group ferocious strike lasting 3 turns, both gorgo and posti need a bit of a stat rework. Their damage is too low. I would suggest they get a buff in damage and a small nerf in HP to compensate. Something like 1300 damage and 3900-4000 HP for gorgo, 1200 damage and 4200 HP for posti. To avoid gorgo beating speedsters with cleansing impact It could get adrenaline surge instead. It would be great since it’s immune to decel but will do nothing against cunning. There could be a better stat build than this suggestion but bottom line is, they need to have better damage output

1 Like

I totally agree with your Postimeterodon and Gorgosuchus comments. It’s ridiculous that Rixis is a resilient with 1300 attack while these two only have 1000. Plus the obvious buff of ferocity lasting three turns, at least for the user.

1 Like

I think giving back piercing counter would kinda break the class system, so i would just buff the damage to 1200. It only has one strike and one impact so i think it’s fine.

That change is crucial but they need a little more. Gorgo needs 75% to 100% stun resistance as stunners are resilient creatures. Both of them need more damage output, the HP could get a small nerf to compensate. Gorgo used to be the more offensive one(makes sense with gorgosaurus as parent), so i’d go with 1300 damage and 3900 HP, posti with 1200 damage and 4100 HP. Those numbers are a guess but i feel they are appropriate. Cleansing impact on gorgo is a bit problematic as It defeats cunning creatures, so It can be swaped for adrenaline surge, that awesome forgotten move. It helps with tanks since it’s immune to decel but will do nothing against speedsters.

Agreed, It needs something. I think It needs a stronger turn 1, in this case, pounce. I’d trade cunning impact for pounce and strike for cunning strike. Damage is fine but It needs more HP and speed, i don’t know why they made raptors that much frail after the great 2.0 rework, for spinotahraptor i think 3000 HP and 127 speed is what It needs. Having lethal wound seems like a good option here.

True, although there’s the option of giving It group decelerating impact instead of strike as well. It really needs stronger first turn options. I don’t see taunting rampage really benefiting it, i agree It should either become a regular rampage to be used turn one or get resilient rampage for a better turn two. The other moves and the stats are honestly great.

I agree It definitely needs more HP, the kit is pretty decent but the stats aren’t cutting It. I think 4000 HP would be fair. I don’t think It necessarily needs other resistances.

Totally agree, 4200 HP and it’s a decent hybrid. Keeping it’s parent’s swap in ferocity is also a great idea. It currently has pretty decent resistances so I’m not sure If It really needs any change there. Kit is also great so i wouldn’t change anything.

Not sure about sidestep, but i think It needs a speed buff, 130 would be enough imo. I’m not sure I’d really change the kit, it’s great, but maybe getting impact and run or evasive impact instead of evasive stance would be a good option to make It more offensive and less stally. Impact and run seems like great utility so I’m leaning towards that. Other than speed the stats are fine, could get up to 3000 HP tho.

Poor indeed. Like you said It has horrible stats, both parents have better stats lol. I think 3000 HP and 1300 damage is ideal. I agree with the move choice you did, I’d keep fierce strike and distracting impact, but change minor swoop for cleansing swoop. I’m not sure about changing regen, i think it’d be useful If you want to distract and stay in. The kit isn’t that bad, it’s the stats that are horrible(except speed). And of course, giving It no escape. But i do like your idea of making It the ultimate kamikaze with LW, I’d be down for that.
Since you mentioned dinodactylus, i think It should have its parent’s counter attack, It already has pretty bad damage, so i think it’d be fine.

1 Like

Yeah, that’s really nonsensical for what’s supposed to be fierce creatures. I actually wouldn’t mind that much sarco got 1200 damage, but I think it’s fair to see the result of those possible buffs on tournament balance before changing anything on It. It seems like buffing those dinos that already needed a buff would probably make rixys balanced as It is now.

1 Like

Thats fair. My only argument for anything less then 1200 (even 1150) is that then it can’t 2-hit T Rex and Allosaurus G2 (since Rixis gets to attack twice first).

1 Like

Indominus Gen2 deserves a buff, he got gutted last update with a 300 health nerf and removal of complete immunities… if anything, the removal of full immunity should warrant some kind of compensation to Indom Gen2’s stats, not proposing anything major but at least restore his health back to 4500

Indom gen 2 is fine tho

In principle i agree with you, but It doesn’t really bother me that sarco beats them. Rex and allo gen2 are not really relevant in epic tournaments (with both hybrids and non hybrids). On the other hand It does bother me that diplodocus beats rex and allo gen2, since they are in the same “tier” and competing against each other

1 Like

the nerfs were a bit harsh, I’m fine with him losing a bit of attack to differentiate him from Indom G1, but at least give him the 4500 health back

I still fail to see how Rixis and the others aren’t also in the same “tier” :man_shrugging: Wouldn’t their ability to counter Rixis make them more relevant? I know that epic hybrid/non hybrid skill tournaments aren’t common, but still. And they would give low level players more counters against Rixis too, and honestly as epic fierce creatures they should be counters for it.

If by “tier” you mean tournament classes (like epic hybrid vs epic non-hybrid), then I see why they wouldn’t directly compete there, that’s true. But what about other cases then? Nodopatosaurus and T Rex are also not in the same “tier”. Would you have a problem if Nodopatosaurus was beating T Rex every time? And let’s not forget that arena is still a thing. Having these counters would help a lot in the lower arenas where Rixis has much fewer of them. We’re just so used to sticking to what Rixis has been that we’re having trouble seeing what it should be. And at this point we’re arguing over 50 attack :joy: (honestly just 1 attack, but the game doesn’t work in increments that small).

1 Like

Well i mean they aren’t relevant on those hybrid/non hybrid tournaments, almost no one uses them.

Yeah that’s what i mean.

Nodopatosaurus is a bit different for me. First, It isn’t a superhybrid, so the power gap is supposedly smaller, second, It is purely made of resilient ingredients, so It makes sense It would lose against a fierce just one tier below. Sarco on the other hand gets fierce traits from the fierce parents despite being classified as resilient.

I don’t think what you suggested is really that harsh anyway, i just overall don’t think we should sacrifice the strenght of a superhybrid to fit into a lower tier that won’t usually fight it. Though your point about arena is valid. But If we’re gonna nerf sarco’s damage, then imo It should be as minimal as possible, If It gets 1190 It still gets killed by rex and allo gen2. Another thing that would solidify them as counters is resistance to stun. I think fierce overall should have resistance to stun to counter tanks anyway, so It would be positive for chompers to have this advantage as they have almost no resistances overall.

While the term “superhybrid” exists in official JW media, in JWA it’s more of a fan designation. Ludia themselves never draws a line between hybrids and superhybrids. Between hybrids and non hybrids, absolutely; they even have their own tournaments. But hybrids and superhybrids are always lumped together. So I personally see no difference between the Nodopatosaurus example and what is happening with Rixis. Honestly, the only argument for Rixis beating T Rex is that it always has beaten it. But if I said “I know of an epic resilient creature that can beat T Rex every time on even footing”, you would think that creature should get a nerf. It doesn’t matter if it’s a hybrid, superhybrid, or non hybrid, a resilient should not have a 100% winning matchup against a fierce of the same rarity. But we agree that Rixis needs more counters, so a small change that allows for more counters for it sounds like “problem solved” to me. Some potential counters would need buffs, like Gorgo and Posti. But you can’t reasonably buff something like T Rex without breaking it’s other matchups, so nerfing Rixis really is the only option here. And if Luida making Rixis a pure resilient is any indication of their intentions for it, then Rex should be beating it every time, period. Now, one could argue that Rixis should be fierce-resilient, and I tend to agree with that (even without changing it’s moveset). But even in that case, fierces should be countering it, since fierce is good against resilient and neutral against itself.

We do agree that Rixis needs more counters, but I don’t think stun resistance is enough. All Rixis has to do to beat T Rex or Allosaurus is go Ferocious Impact into Resilient strike. No stun needed, and it still wins every time. It even beats Secodontosaurus, a dino that is immune to both deceleration and stun (mostly because it outspeeds it, another potential nerf). Rixis functions perfectly fine as a high-damage dino (without needing ANY resilient attacks, another argument for it being fierce-resilient), but also as a stalling tank. This is what I mean when I said that Rixis is too good at too many things, and why I’ve favored a damage nerf here.

As a side note, if stun is a resilient ability (which it mostly is), then Fierce should be resistant/immune to it, not cunnings. Thats definitely backwards. Although resilients don’t really need more help in that matchup…

That’s why i said that for them to counter rixys they need stun resistance in addition to the damage nerf on rixys, otherwise they would just get stunned and die anyway even If the damage is nerfed

Well to me there’s a clear difference, even if hybrids and superhybrids are lumped together(perhaps for the sake of convinience as there wouldn’t be enough creatures to compete If they were separated), there’s a tendency to make superhybrids stronger than hybrids, tho I’m not gonna claim that there is a stric rule dictating that and Ludia has made exceptions several times. But It is something we can observe and even expect most of the time. Ludia even said themselves that hybrids are not made equal, so the value/strenght of ingredients seem to be a factor too. That could explain why some hybrids are stronger than average based on the strenght of their parents, but yeah, not exactly reliable “rule”. Honestly, it’s hard to tell If they really take this seriously or not, they’re probably just doing whatever they want lol

I don’t exactly disagree with rex and allo gen2 beating rixys, as you said It makes sense even If It were classified as resilient and fierce. All I’m saying is that It doesn’t really matter much If they don’t. If they do, It would mean perhaps unnecessarily sacrificing rixys’ strenght (even If just a little) as an endgame epic superhybrid just to make It balanced in a tier It doesn’t really participate on. Though I’m not really sure how impactful a nerf to 1190 damage would be on those end game matchups. If It doesn’t change much than It is all good to me.

1 Like

Yeah, I guess the stun resistance component is important too. Otherwise Rixis could go Ferocious Impact -> GSS -> RS and still win. It really shows how many options it has, and how strong it really is. Honestly maybe lowering its speed too might help in some cases, but no need to overnerf it.

The superhybrid vs hybrid distinction just seems insignificant to me compared to others (like rarity). Ankytrosaurus, Tragodistis, and Stegodeus are all legendaries (the last two are even superhybrids), but T Rex crushes all of them despite being in a different rarity. And yet it has a terrible matchup against a resilient dino in it’s own rarity. Clearly the gap between Rixis and T Rex is smaller then the gap between these others and T Rex, so why are the matchups so different? I have also seen in some cases that not all hybrids of a rarity are created equal, with superhybrids and those with exclusive ingredients often (but NOT always) being stronger (not that Ludia follows this consistently, ahem Majundaboa ahem Schaphotator ahem). But the fierce-resilient-cunning triangle holds up over larger gaps then this.

Now, looking into this, I looked into Ardontosaurus, which also happened to beat T Rex every time. Ardontosaurus is fierce-resilient, so maybe Rixis really should be fierce-resilient too if it’s going to do that much damage. But that doesn’t change the fact that it needs counters. It slows cunnings (as it should). It outdamages resilients. And it either outdamages or outspeeds most fierce. What are you supposed to use to beat it? The only thing I can think of is bleed, but even then you’re probably sacrificing your bleeder in order to beat it, so the best you can do is trade evenly with it. So Ludia has to either a) keep it a pure resilient and reduce it’s attack more significantly to balance it or b) make it a fierce-resilient to justify it’s attack power, but also buff up a few dinos in it’s own rarity to counter it.

I think someone needs to examine all of Rixises relevant matchups before and after a potential attack nerf to see what it needs, how strong it really is now, and how the nerfs would affect its standing in the upper arenas.

2 Likes

EPICS HYBRIDS

Brontolasmus
HP: 4350 changed to 3900
Absolutly horrible,and of course,i start to lvl it up for raids…

Dimodactylus
Attack: 900 changed to 1000
quite good.
Entelochops

Swap In Ability: None changed to Swap In Slow
Completly absurd,he is the 2nd best epic hybrid.
Erlikogamma
Attributes
Attack: 1300 changed to 1450
A good improvement,now maybe we can start to fear it
Gorgosuchus
Attributes
HP: 4350 changed to 4500
Really good,now probably beat sarco on 1 vs 1

Majundaboa
Resistances
Stun Res.: 67% changed to 100%
Good to take but still to squishy to do anything…His hp need a buff ,or else buff his speed.
Postimetrodon
Attributes
HP: 4350 changed to 4500
Really good to take,postimetrodon confirm a win on 1 vs 1 against sarcorixis
Procerathomimus
Attributes
Attack: 1500 changed to 1600
HP: 2850 changed to 3000
A really good improvement which i don’t understand why monomimus which is the legendary version got nerfed this much.
Scaphotator
Attributes
Attack: 800 changed to 1000
HP: 2700 changed to 3000
A good improvement ,sadly,it is still bad…still no immunities and stats are still too low to defend herself.
So:
Brontolasmus come to the top5 to average/bad place with a 450hp nerf…gg ludia,next patch,you can buff her
Megalogaia remain untouched and very bad
Same for spinotahraptor andarmagocephalus,

The biggest buff was thylacotator. Indom gen 2 is the best counter, and it has to MF+cloak to really get the best results. Procerath has a shot. but it’s in thylac’s favor. Trust me, sarcorixis is not as good as thylac. Chops can’t kill with revenge. Gamma and procerath get slowed, and gamma always loses. Postimetrodon maybe, but with group ferocity it will be hard. Indom gen 2 wins. Sarco now loses. Gorgosuchus can win, but it will most likely die in the process. dimodactylus’s bleed can be cleansed with DP while also being slowed. Scaph and spinotah too. Brontolasmus and the other tanks will still lose as usual. I wouldn’t get excited if something can beat sarco. Thylacotator is your new problem