Ludia Forums

Nerf the Velociraptor Logically


#1

Okay, I’m sick of this debate about whether or not the Vraptor is OP or not.
One side says yes, the other says no because it has “Counters”
If a counter is a higher lvl Vraptor that shouldn’t count.
It’s OP. Why?
Because counters like Stego, NoPata, Ankylo, etc, are slow and low damage.
Say you hit the raptor with Thagomizer or another slow move, guess what? They can switch out to another Dino that destroys your low damage tank, and guess what? Now you don’t have a counter to the raptor that’ll pop back out again. (Most of the time, unless you have a bunch of counters on your team. But then you lose the dpt, and even if you have more counters you’re immediately put a Dino).
I’ve been thinking about the nerf’s that have been proposed, as I’m in favor of the extra turn on pounce, but i also believe that if the raptor is switched out, and then switched back in it shouldn’t automatically have its pounce back on its first turn, as it’s already going first late game and that fact alone wins the majority of battles. Especially since you’re now already 1 Dino lost.
Go ahead and try to tell me that Dino’s can 1 shot it, but please, give me a couple that can tank a pounce and do enough damage that turn to kill him. Please.
Otherwise your one trick pony needs to be nerfed

My idea on its Nerf: Instead of extra turn on pounce, have pounce give it 1 round of battle switch lock as a debuff, that way a counter is a literal counter (ex Ankylo or Nodopatasuarus), so then if it pounces first turn that player has a drawback. This is a strategy game where your actions in each turn have consequences. Make a player think of what they want to do a couple turns after.

I’ll admit I use him, but that doesn’t mean I like it. I’d love to see my Majungasuchus be more viable, but with this staple Raptor on every team it’s obvious that you either have a raptor and win or don’t and lose. Please Ludia, nerf this guy so then we can be more creative in battles


Fine, don't nerf the Velociraptors, but at least make it fair
Idea On How To Safely Nerf Raptors
#2

Had a fight yesterday with a raptor that was able to one-shot two of my anti raptor tanks with 25%+ armor. The 3rd one survived one hit but they immediately swapped it out and rolled me with their other 3 Dino’s.


#3

I used to think need that raptor but their are multiple ways around them. They can be one bite killed if you have a dino that can survive the 1st strike. The only thing I would say is make pounce a 2 turn wait after use. But the raptor is so squishy that it likely wouldn’t survive without the pounce. It is strong but there are plenty of counters so now I say No Nerf.


#4

You mad brotein? Lolz Thanks for the info but I’m a noob to forum talk regarding dino hunting and battling. What’s Nerf mean and good job naming all the DINASOURz! I’m ADHD and can’t remember the names right off the bat. Need to write them down on a piece of parchment and review!


#5

So I’ll start by saying I’m in the “non-OP” camp. I’ll also state I’m not opposed to changes to a game I think is fine if it improves the overall experience.

I’ve been doing a good handful of battles in my arena (Arena 4) which seems to be about my level (both in skill and collections, since my collecting has vastly slowed). The Raptor is part of my team and is a prevalent opponent as well.

Normally, with the right mix and about equal levels, I tend to win whether I have my own raptor or not, and even if they always have theirs. I’ve had enough losses in a row to see where there could be some improvement.

I’ve also been hit by someone’s level 16 VRaptor which actually did finally 1-shot all the counters I had. Just once, mind you, but it does feel a little incredible when it happens.

As a one-trick pony, the VRaptor doesn’t have a lot of dimension to it. It hits fast, and it hits hard. The problem with tanking it to survive doesn’t come with the fact that it hits hard, it’s that it hits with a sizable debuff; even my T-Rex, which normally is my tank/chomp for Raptors when my armoured dinos are out/unavailable, has lately not been able to out-bite the higher-level raptors before it’s rendered useless.

IF the raptor was to be changed - and I’m iffy on that still - either the damage scaling needs to be reduced a little so that Pounce doesn’t insta-gib nearly everyone, the debuff needs to be removed or reduced so that stuff that does survive can better punish the little ambush predator, or an extra cooldown turn needs to be added to Pounce so it’s not “One-two-one-two-one-two-win” to an unprepared team. Only one of these changes needs to take effect for things to change drastically, and I’m most inclined to agree only with the last one.

To not be able to count on turns refreshing abilities when not on the field is not something you want to ask for, because that will have to apply across the board and in the end will drastically hurt slower dino teams than faster ones, which brings me to what I feel is the REAL problem with the raptor: speed teams. You can deal with a VRaptor, but once it’s all said and done if your opponent retains the speed advantage then it’ll feel like the raptor put you in a place where no recovery is possible because you’re always on the defensive.

In this game, speed is king. Most battles are determined by who hits first, not who hits hardest. This makes choosing your team an actual strategic decision, which I love - but the raptor tends to get the focus of ire because it’s at the top, and is the only one at the top.

See, in my opinion, the Velociraptor isn’t so much the problem as its position is the problem. There isn’t a single dinosaur with a speed stat to match, making it a must-have for all low-level teams, most mid-level teams, and even a handful of higher-level teams. If the raptor shared the speed stat with, say, two other dinosaurs (maybe one fast tank with low damage, and one mid-range counter-striker that happens to have Usain Bolt’s legs) the variety would likely sort this problem out. As it is, to out-pace a Raptor right out the gate is impossible without one’s own Raptor at an equal or higher level. This is the opposite of creativity, and we need creativity in strategy to keep the game interesting.

I use counters like Kentrosaurus with an instant-cripple, effectively neutering the first Pounce. I like the dinosaur, but I’ve come to the realization that at my level now, if I don’t get my own Velociraptor, I really need to have the Kentrosaurus otherwise the rest of my team is on the defensive as my beloved Stego simply doesn’t survive as well anymore and the rest of my team is just too slow to properly address a speed team. While that’s partly on me for team makeup, I don’t actually have many options (and I go out walking 4x per day, so I am out catching stuff but am limited to what I can find).

SO the TL;DR version is I don’t think the Raptor is necessarily the problem, I think too few other options are. After all, the Kentrosaurus - which outpaces the Stego for the fact that without having to take the the Pounce hit Kentro > Stego - is a RARE dino, while the Velociraptor, one-trick though it is, is common and plentiful.


#6

Ways to balance raptor meta:

Give immunity dinos more health to survive pounce
Give T-rex immunity
Make tanks 5-10% better
Make pounce reduce attack 25% instead of 50%


#7

Lately my battles have less raptors and more often I’m battling that irritating hybrid einiasuchus lately from people. They just love to use that rengerate pulse! Ughh… Honestly raptors aren’t that bad to me to deal with when there’s tons of counters for it.


#8

i have a level 20 velocripator (they spawn like crazy around where I live at night). i’m in arena 7 when you play CPU teams with level 25ish dinos. it can usually pounce + strike and kill the first dino and survive, then pounce the 2nd dino almost killing it, then it usually dies. i also use pyro and utah raptor and if you get one of them on your team you sub it in and usually kill the 2nd with strike. then you pounce the 3rd dino and it’s basically GG.

it is very powerful. CPU rarely uses raptor counters and it’s one of the best chances to win in the higher arenas. please don’t nerf it.


#9

Its exactly what bagoyee said what is becoming a painful meta. One raptor isn’t the problem; you like it or not various counters can outplay and outsmart a raptor and it works exactly the same for any other dinosaur out there. If you have the counter and play smarter, you win. Except if the enemy has 10+ levels lol, just derank and come back later.

The problem only starts to occure when you face 2+ raptors, even worse 3 and 4 in one team (you get it, 3 raptors and a speedy one). Thats exactly becoming a huge drawback for ‘creative’ and versatile dino decks.

Now some kind of nerf which limits the amount of raptors you can utilise or draw in one battle team would be the perfect solution; preferably max 2 as it is still do able if countered right.

Now as i heard mentioning here as well; it isn’t always the raptor’s fault; it is exactly the game’s fault for making counters so inaccessible (and i mean good counters unlike overlevelled ‘useless’ commons) while the raptor is overly accessible during night time, globally, everywhere. Even the utahraptor is seen occasionally, the counters… Aren’t.

Stegocera; tricera spawns left and right but fusing makes you waste loads of DNA; git gud levels? Give me a month… Oh wait ur raptor is level 25 nvm.

Nodopato: nodo during night time. Who does that on a regular basis but oh well; it is rare. Not very easy to come by but GL finding it. Apato is even worse despite it being just a common. Spawns very randomly and rarily in random locations and parks. After that you still waste loads of DNA into fusing.

Weurho; rare, only spawns in a specific region. Unlike stego or raptor everywhere.

Stego: does what it does; it can kill one raptor. Not 3; facing anything else is a pain since it is just a common; its not versatile enough skill-wise and the slow has a huge cooldown unlike pounce. Especially in higher arenas you will notice this being a bad pick ‘just’ to counter raptors.

Apato: even just the apato or any of the longneck types would be so handy. Park spawns are too random so these perfect counters stay perfectly hidden where they are… Thats right in the bottom of your dinosaur list.

A last resort would be stun, right? Not exactly; most of them have too much delay and it still remains a chance game. You will be surprised how many times 75% stun misses (its hilarious lol). Same goes for crit; too much reliable on the chance game.

Immunity is next up; to deny pounce dmg reduction and just one-shot the raptor with full DMG. Again very hard to come by. Irritator gen 2 only arena exclusive. Other immunity dinosaurs have armor shredding skills. It is used for armor, not raptors but with multiple raptors you have no idea how creative you get lol. Better ones are always rare+, best options legendary.

Classic examples of dinosaurs which counter the raptor perfectly. Either only 1(stego), maybe 2 (stegocera) but never 3 times. Even then most of them are rather hard to come by as described; or offer no significant advantages in other matchups unlike the raptor. Pounce just does loads of damage, raptor is fast for fast and hard strikes: almost any situation is more favorable for this combo than counters described here. Thats what makes it so good and versatile.

It is too easy to get (multiple) raptors vs getting decent counters, counters are too hard to come by in general and we need a raptor amount nerf. Max 2 raptors per battle team. You really can’t out-speed 3 raptors. Thats why events made me exciting, until they changed rares to 3. 3 rares for one hybrid is definitely not enough to get involved in a raptor meta.

Numerous odds are stacked against non-raptor decks. Oh well, back to the drawing board i guess… Ludia hear our prayers, we want thy to ‘nerf’ the raptors, thanks. Or better: buff the counters! Make them more accessible.

Yours faithfully,

Mr creativ dex and qq i dont have ‘4’ decent raptors


Rampage and Pounce need a longer cooldown
Raptors are NOT overpowered
#10

Also I feel that the commonality of the raptor means most people have it much higher level than their counters. If you look at it a lvl 16 Dino will always be more powerful than a lvl 12. Even when the level 12 is a counter. Eventually though everyone hits that brickwall of coins issue and only people who pay real money will generate enough coins to outlevel their peers.


#11

Tbh I was pretty pissed when I did write the opening of this post, as I lost 4 battles in a row because of Vraptors.
However that doesn’t change the fact that in the responses for those that are in favor of no Nerf, they have yet to bring up any example of a pure counter for it.
That’s not my opinion, but pure fact that can be shown by reading (at this current time).
The one person who is asking for no Nerf is one who is reliant on it against CPU’s because it’s a common dinosaur to farm. I see no valid reason in how that justifies it to not be nerfed.
Also in my OG post I meant to add that an additional factor that could be used to help balance VRaptor
No pounce on immediate switch in.
VRaptor is the fastes Dino, so it automatically gets the first hit.
No reason for it to switch out when faced with a tank (ex NPato), switch back in and kill, switch back out, and then switch back in for a third pounce (often not even needed, as you’re already a Dino down)
I’m looking for valid reasons that justify either side of the debate, ones that are logical. Not just opinion.
If you’re pro nerf cool, give me a logical way to nerf it and why.
If you’re not in favor of a nerf, give me a valid reason as to why, instead of a biased view dipped in favoritism


#12

Just read your bit, thank you for going into detail and actually taking the time to type and post, that’s actually the kind of thing I was hoping for.
For the most part I believe you hit the nail on the head. You’re very reasonable and offer strong evidence.
I actually have to just straight up thank you lmao, as it is the pure opposite of creativity
A game where you build your teams shouldn’t be based on just a few select units that you HAVE to have in order to compete, it’s about the way you get set up, the way you plan, the way you personalize your own team and the way you play.
It’s like a TCG.
I don’t want a Nerf to make the Raptor unusable, but I want one that at least makes someone think about whether they value this asset over the other and wether it will work with what they’re setting uo


#13

Nice YT channel bro, good content!


#14

I believe raptors, specifically the velociraptor, are in dire need of some changes. They’re the only dino in the game that I’ve seen that can win a game all on their own. I’ve come to decide an idea that we can:

  • Decrease raptor damage
  • Give raptors a chance to dodge attacks
    OR
  • Simply make raptors wait a turn before they can use Pounce.

#15

I’m in favor of just removing the negative damage buff. They still get to go first, they still get to deliver that massive damage, but then they get smashed like the glass cannons they are supposed to be. Powerful, but fragile.

And the dinos that can work around the damage debuff (I was using Dimetrodon Gen 2 as my counter) to one-shot a raptor are much harder to come by and impossible to keep leveled up with the much more common raptor.

Removing the damage buff still allows Raptors to hurt you, but you can finally hurt them back (one-shot) so they can’t disappear to pounce again.


#16

Need cliffs breh . Lol jk. Out making a run to Home Depo for my buddy and Is Palm Tree Business. Capturing Dino’s just got beat by @Roberto . Keep a Keen eye out for his “OP” VR! :angry::angry::angry:


#17

I disagree on the grounds that the damage nerf is the only thing that lets a Velociraptor survive more than a turn. While I concur with the notion that it really sucks when the VRaptor one-hit-kills one of your dinos, it would be an equal slap in the face if it in turn could be one-hit-killed by well over half the available population if it DOESN’T kill you outright. It causes more problems than solves them if the Raptor becomes an essential kill like that.

That said, unless it’s a raptor versus a similarly-sized dino or another raptor, nothing should be within the range of a full-health raptor insta-kill. Tanks should still be able to tank, and larger Theropods should be bulky enough to at LEAST be able to take 2 hits, if not more from them.

I maintain that the only real nerf that should be entertained ought to be an additional cooldown turn on Pounce, which would eliminate at least some of the the clockwork murder that befalls an unprepared/underleveled team. I also wonder about toying with the idea of reducing Pounce’s debuff from 50% to 35%; enough that the raptor can survive a vicious attack, but not enough to feel like it can strike again with impunity. It’s an ambush hunter, and a small one at that; once the element of surprise is gone, it really should go into hiding again.

I also maintain that the real problem with the raptor is the lack of viable alternatives; it makes me chuckle a little now that there’s an “Einiosuchus is OP” thread, since that’s become one of my damage-dealing alternatives specifically to deal with raptors.

I suggest instead of focusing on nerfs that we ask for minor buffs to dinosaurs that fit in certain roles. The ankylosaur is armoured 24/7; why not let its invulnerability be usable turn 1? Why the delay?
Buff any armoured dinos by an additional 5-10%. Give the T-Rex and other SLOW giant Theropods immunity to debuffs (the Dimetrodon being fast and immune should stay unique). Give a slight damage buff (no more than 10%) to counter-striking dinos.

And for variety’s sake, equalize the speed of the raptors. They should be fast, but unless we want to deal with “____raptor is OP!” forever, there isn’t a single dinosaur that should occupy the fastest slot exclusively. All raptors should be stuck at 130 speed out the gate. Maybe the death-ostriches (can’t remember the name) should join them, and maybe some dinosaurs (such as Erlikosaurus) can continue increasing their speed during a match, but cap the default speed so that no single dinosaur is above all the others.


#18

Can someone explain to me why the Velociraptor, which is the fastest dino in the game, has the fastest cooldown between absolute crippling strikes, is allowed to start with POUNCE and can easily take out all three of an opponent’s dino is allowed to do all that but my Trike, which SHOULD be a good counter, can’t use stunning impact or greater stunning strike until at least one turn which means I get pounced, I retaliate with a minor stunning strike and then the raptor finishes me off with a strike?! I’ve got level 700 raptors taking out my 1533 trike in two swipes and it’s frustrating and infuriating.

Look, don’t nerf the raptor. Leave it like it is, but at least make it fair. If other dinos have to wait a turn before starting with a slaughter move, then so should the velociraptor.


#19

Ha ha, death-ostrich. If only we could rename our dinos like you can in PoGo, I’d immediately add that in. :slight_smile:


#20

Heh heh, I mean, when you look at it, tell me “Death Ostrich” isn’t at least one of the first things to come to mind :wink:

Oh, if only… I have a large list of names I’d be giving them all!