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No Escape and Lockdown moves

Has anyone else noticed that the lockdown abilities of crocodiles are kind of useless now that all of them have No Escape? Pinning Strike and Lockdown Impact obviously still do damage, and Immobilize has some utility as an instant guarenteed stun, but the lockdown aspects of these moves (when used by a croc, at least) don’t matter due to them activating No Escape and preventing swaps anyway if the other creature tries to run away. In fact, having lockdown remain in the other moves could actually be deterimental, because sometimes you catch an opponent off guard when they try to switch and they basically lose a turn, so having them get locked down by an attack would prevent this from happening. Do you think that crocs should have their lockdown abilities switched to other effects, or at least have the lockdown part removed?

To be clear, I’m not saying lockdown as an effect is useless on attacks, but only in cases where the creature with a lockdown attack also has No Escape. Certain moves with lockdown can still be good for other reasons (see immobilize), but their swap-prevention ability becomes redundant if the dino already has No Escape. And these lockdown aspects, I would argue, could be worthy of an update.

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I was thinking the same thing. You can’t escape from these creatures anyway (unless immune or immune to lockdown) so other than gaining a turn (f/I if your opponent used superiority or you need an extra move before your supermove is available again- which again only works if opponent isn’t immune or immune to stuns) it doesn’t do much

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the lockdown moves are only pointless if your creature isn’t about to die. Stuff like immobilize is useful to keep things in place if you’re about to loose the creature anyway. Useful for keeping the creature around as set up fodder for your next one, but not much else.

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Exactly. Immune creatures can escape no matter what, and immobilize is useful in that case, but not because it has a lockdown effect. Then there’s moves like pinning strike on sarcosuchus or lockdown impact on Purussaurus and its G2 that don’t really do anything besides normal damage.

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That’s a good point that I hadn’t thought of, but its still very limited imo.

Pinning moves have always been the least useful mechanic. They just don’t work with the timing of the game well. Any dino with Pinning Strike is basically a bad dino (which will need to make up for it with other things).

I’m hoping they change immobilize to make it a bit more useful. Maybe add vulnerability?

Yeah pinning strike is especially bad, because it only applies lockdown for one turn. So if you’re slower than your opponent, it is impossible to pin your opponent down during the turn after you die. And that’s ignoring the fact that a lot of the time preventing a swap doesn’t do a lot for how you play many dinos.

Immobilize is VERY useful. About to die and want to ensure the next dino can’t switch out against your finisher? Immobilize. Want to reduce a turn on your attack cooldowns (I.E Regen)? Immobilize. Want to charge up your Rixis’s GSS with no delay? Immobilize. Want an extra turn against a dino with a priority move? Immobilize. Want to avoid counter damage on said dino using a priority move? Immobilize. About to lose so you need to stall out the match as much as possible for a timeout? IMMOBILIZE!

I say keep it, it has plenty of uses outside of straight pinning.

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Those are all true, but most of those would remain true if immobilize didn’t have lockdown- they’re all linked to the fact that it’s an instant pin (which as you’ve pointed out, and I agree, is still quite useful). Setting up for a finisher isn’t useless either, but non-instant moves can have trouble setting it up.

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Eh, I suppose. Doesn’t really make much of a difference outside of setup I suppose. But a benefit is a benefit.

Don’t forget sarcorixis’s Cycle. Ferocious Impact>stun>strike>immobilize>Impact>stun>strike… I feel that immobilize works better on sarcorixis than grypolyth because of the cycle. Also immobilize can work really well with bleed. I used thylacotator to bleed sarcos in the tournament and then use my own sarco to immobilize the sarco, letting it bleed out

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They should give it to creatures who have no “no escape” it just give the creature a stunt so why not change it to stunt

Isn’t that called “immune to swap-prevention”?

For bleed though, all you need to do to trap it is simply swap into rixis, because of No Escape. Immobilize is a good move, don’t get me wrong, but not because of lockdown. I would argue other lockdown moves on crocs are more worthy of an update (though most of the dinos with those moves aren’t meta relevant, unfortunately)

When your creature is against a stunner with low health you use a lockdownmove, you’re stunned, he can’t swap!

As I understand it this is the point of having lockdown - a stunned croc doesn’t have no escape

The setup aspect if you’re about to die has some use, but I think the idea of trapping them while you’re stunned is very niche. Why would the enemy even want to swap after they’ve stunned you? They get a free turn!

There’s also no reason to distract an immune but I see it done countless times a day - but I get your point :slightly_smiling_face:

Yeah I always laugh when that happens. I guess people are going to play how people are going to play.