Ludia Forums

Normal speed order for swap in abilities

#1

To me it makes no sense that a swapped in creature should act fist every time.
A slow moving dracorex gen2 should not be able to catch a velociraptor off guard.

Proposing that it only acts first if the new creatures speed is higher than the opponents creature, just like it does if both swap at the same time.

Instant ability vs swap in
#2

Again the full and separate actions of a turn

Select dino
Dino enter ring (swap in occurs)
Priority is assigned
Moves are selected
Priority is reassigned
Moves are enacted
Counter moves enacted
Slower person moves
Counter moves acted
Results
Rinse and repeat

As you can see there are several steps between swap in and the actual moves

#3

Select dino
Dino enter ring (swap in occurs, swap in ability is already the selected move.)
Priority is assigned
Moves are selected (Swap in ability is already selected.)
Priority is reassigned
Moves are enacted (Swap in ability moves first, if swapped in creature has higher priority)
Counter moves enacted
Slower person moves
Counter moves acted
Results
Rinse and repeat

I don’t see the problem really, this is the whole point of the idea, that swap in ability is just a predertermined move for the next creature.

It still gets a swap, with a free move.

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#4

No I’m sorry but that is not the way it is. And that completely nullifies the use of swap in moves.

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#5

No does not nullify the use, it just means that slower swap in creatures takes one hit before they get defence or debuffed/hit their opponent.

#6

Most swap in attack creatures are already on the fragile side. They tend to have lower stats that compensate for thier swap in skill.

They also receive a pinned penalty for using it. The compensation is the instant effect and nature of swap in skills

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#7

Then plan your battle, slow the opponent down before swapping.
If anything it would add more interesting planning to your battles, instead of the dumbed down swap in and out to finish ANY creature, not matter what it is. Like it is now.

The only defence against swap in to finish you off right now, is evades. And that is if they’re already up and running.

#8

But that was the point of swap in skills. Is you mess with the order things are done in it removes the point of it.

Basically what you suggest in your revamp is that all dinosaurs should be able to be brought in and move on that turn. Since the act of dealing a dinosaur is counted as your move.

In all reality by using g the swap in skills you are in effect giving up a turn and a half depending on skill. And punishing your dinosaur to being stuck and un removable for up-to 2 turns.

If you made the turns act in the way you are purposing then swap in Dino’s would in effect become useless and non swap in dinosaurs would become very much what swap in dinosaurs are now.

Case in point you use a dinosaur with swap otskill the swap in… Let’s say velociraptor by your design that raptor would come in and be able to pounce and then at the end of the turn you would be able to manually swap to the next dinosaur which would again be able to come in with its attack at hand.

This would inevitably lead to an endless barrage of swaps to the fastest Dino’s in game. Leaving players with no ability to plan or enact any real form of tactics other than to roll the dice on a random skill.

To go to your original analogy of a slow juvenile pachysepholasaurus surprising a velociraptor…

Yes it can as it is roughly the size of a velociraptor and is engaging in a 1 on 1 pit fight against a dinosaur who usually hunted as a group member.

To be honest one loan defensive dinosaur or any animal against one loan single aggressive animal will almost always win.

This is why in real live most predators don’t get above a 30% success rate and more often than not are unsuccessful. That’s why they normally go for the weakest animal available.

#9

Please don’t mis interpret. I see you have a point of view. I’m not trying to change your mind. I’m merely stating my own and trying to clarify points that I think are being misunderstood.

#10

Allow me to clarify:

I don’t agree.
The point was to make swapping more viable.
Giving you one free ability/move on the swap. This move is forced no matter what and have no real counter. So strong in fact they had to give a 2 turn lock, which in itself is insane.

With my proposition it plays out the same way, if the dino is faster than the opposition. If it’s slower, then it’ll take one hit, then after that it plays out the same as now. They still get 1 move PLUS an action, just like now.

No, dinosaurs without swap in abilities change the same was as they do now. 1 move, no action.

My way you might not even need a 2 turn lock, 1 would for the most part be enough (As you need to beat the speed of the creature you will be facing when swapping in).

No. How?

No. Velociraptor does not come in, if it comes in it has no swap in ability and do no dmg.
In my case the velociraptor is already in the battle, the D2 is swapped in.

If we go with realism there would be no game at all. All i suggest is using the logic that’s already in the game, with speed and priority.

I might have been inaccurate in my first response. what is needed is really one more priority reassignment after the move, to make sure the priority is (in my opinion) correct, and respects the speed and priority logic.

So in case of Velociraptor vs whatever with D2 coming in:

  1. Player 1 Velociraptor pounces.
  2. Player 2’s Any dino strikes back.
  3. Player 1 selects strike.
  4. Player 2 Swaps to D2.
  5. Velociraptor strikes first because of normal speed/priority check. (If velociraptor is slowed then D2 hits first)
  6. D2 finishes off Velociraptor.
#11

This that you purpose does away with the speed mitigation effect of swap in abilities the whole reason they were created was to allow slower Dino’s to effectively hit faster Dino’s with said skill.

In the case of velociraptor who can out speed natively all other dinosaurs I means it would never see a swap in effect against it. As well as most other high speed Dino’s. Especially the raptor family.

It would pounce and kill instantly all swap in Dino’s against it.

Swap in Dino’s were built into the game to counter the undetectable raptor. As there was a time when more often than not once a raptor got in it was unable to be countered. It just moved to fast did too much damage and removed too much of your damage.

So the made swap in to allow you to break up the fast hard hit cycle.

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#12

This is exactly where we are going now, with the huge amount of swap in abilities coming.
Creatures that remain on the battlefield have no defence whatsoever against swap in abilities.
Already running evades is the ONLY one besides also swapping yourself. And with swap in nullify coming then swapping is the only viable option.

#13

Swap-ins have to happen first or there is no point. Tell me how useful swap-in invincibility is when any dino faster than Alankylo can attack it before the shield goes up?

#14

Agreed these new abilities will change game play. Maybe for the better maybe for the worse.

But that’s what they were meant for.

#15

This is where timing and common sense comes in, you do not swap into a cloaked indo unless you got swap in invulnerability, you do not swap into a pounce-charged velociraptor, unless it’s slowed.

#16

So Alanky loses maybe 1/2 of the HP when swapping in, so what? After that it got invincibility for 3 strikes + 2 shield.

#17

The problem is getting the Dino to connect to be slowed. I love strategy I really hope to play you in a match friendly or otherwise you seem intelligent and good. And I’d hope to show you the same qualities in my game play. I’d also like to win to :wink:

#18

So what? That is the whole strategy of swap-in invincible. You use it when you KNOW the enemy is about to use it’s strongest attack, such as a pounce or critical whatever and make that attack do nothing. It’s called a strategy. The idea you have is like bringing in a fresh dinosaur on a normal selection and having it autocast an attack normally along the usual speed rules. It turns swap-ins into just normal attacks. The whole point was priority, to bring new strategies to the matchup. Swap-in slow, distract, stun, shield, invincible. These are meant to take effect immediately and your change destroys the whole point of it.

#19

Yes, it’ll still mean that you get 1 swap, and extra action in one turn. That’s actually alot. And by moving 1 counter opportunity vs swap-in creatures to before the lock instead of after, you might not even need a heavy 2 turn lock.

#20

A Draco gen2 is the only thing to catch a raptor off guard. Also monomimus and all the dinos with evasive