Ludia Forums

Now hear me out here

What if Cunnings had one of the following two traits:

  • Evasion (no, not the skill) that had a passive damage avoidance in similar increments to armour that could be bypassed by precise and resilient attacks. Would appear in stats alongside armour and Crit chance.
  • Chance to dodge 66% of damage that went in increments similar to armour that start very low (10, 15, and 20% based on size of the creature) but stack with current dodge/sidestep/cloak skills. Would appear as a passive and could be “dispelled” as normal dodge moves are.

I’m more partial to the first option as the second is more RNG complexity but Cunning creatures are supposed to be more thoughtful and clever, AND they are suffering in the meta from what I’m reading. It would add survivability vs. Fierce creatures and some resilient creatures without many resilient strikes, and make cunning creatures more useful against other cunning creatures through Precise attacks.

Am I nuts, or is this a fun idea to add longevity and usefulness to our skinnier two-legged critters in particular?

7 Likes

I said 2 years ago that every creature should have SOME armor and dodge as a passive. They need to do something and a passive dodge would add a more notable RNG element but I’m all for a shake up

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I really like this idea! Cunning creatures have been struggling because of the Resilient meta.
I sometimes even struggle to take on a fierce opponent.
When I face a fierce opponent, I go for a big hit and distraction, then he goes for a big hit, and now I’m almost dead.
Sure, they work on fierce creatures and act as a good counter, but most of the time, I end up losing a lot of health.
Please Ludia, make cunning creatures just as useful as Resilient or even fierce creatures.

2 Likes

i’d be ok with it. it is more to think about in the heat of battle, but soon it would become second nature to double check and quick math it out. As long as we don’t get too crazy with the concept, (passive armor bypass or shields) im for it.

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  • Evasion (no, not the skill) that had a passive damage avoidance in similar increments to armour that could be bypassed by precise, resilient, and cunning attacks. Would appear in stats alongside armour and Crit chance.

This… this isn’t a bad idea at all. Giving Cunnings this passive ability would mostly fix the issue with Cunnings and make them relevant again.

3 Likes

This is partly the exact reason for the suggestion.

The stat setup (pre-boost, anyway) seems to suggest a priority value of

Resilient - Health (3) Damage (2) Speed (1)
Fierce - Health (2) Damage (3) Speed (1)
Cunning - Health (1) Damage (2) Speed (3)

Naturally, this is not a rule but more of a guideline, but nonetheless cunnings tend to be the easiest kills if they don’t outright murder their opposition with the speed advantage. Currently, very very few Cunnings can either do those speedy outright kills or make use of the speed advantage due to the resilient meta slowing them down, or surviving long enough against a Fierce to take a second shot before a DSR tears through them. By rule of rock-paper-scissors, Fierce should tear through the Resilients as their intended prey (as they generally do), Resilients should be able to deter the smaller teeth & talons of Cunnings as they currently do, but Cunnings should be more than an annoyance to Fierce creatures than they are now and be somewhat competitive to hybrids of the other two. Except for a few notable exceptions this doesn’t appear to be the case.

Adding a damage avoidance of 10-20 (or even 30 on the runners like Ornithomimus, the raptors, and Troodon??? More testing required) that is only bypassed with the right skills (Resilient Strike and Precise Strike, and as mentioned above) would give them the edge needed to survive a greater number of hits that aren’t necessarily built to fell them and make choosing them for your roster viable again.

Rather than nerf other creatures that would otherwise be doing well to fall in line, we would be buffing a class of creature that the community appears to unanimously agree could use something extra in their back pocket - best of all, this kind of buff would not seriously impact the usefulness of Fierce or Resilient as a whole!

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I like this idea. I just wouldn’t make cunning attacks bypass this skill. Some will still be able to use precise rampage, precise pounce, cautious strike, etc. to bypass evasion, and I think that’s enough. Leave the rest to the resilients.

4 Likes

Sounds good to me! :slight_smile:

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What if evasive abilities would still reduce damage even if you dont succeed the dodge?
So we have 75% chance to dodge 75% (or 66%) of damage, but you get 25% chance to dodge 25% (or 34%) of damage. So now we still get a benefit if the dodge fails. Personally i dont know how good this idea is but another idea I have is the following:
You know how we have Crit%, armor%? Well, what about evasive/dodge% for cunning.
Crit% - for fierce
Armor% - for resilient
Evasive/Dodge% - for cunning

Yes, I know this is basically the same idea as Poxinas, but what if only fierce creatures would be able to have a critical chance? Only resilient have armor% and no critical chance; and only cunning have evasion chance, but not armor% or/and critical chance.
Just an idea.

Interesting idea; it hadn’t occurred to me to restrict crit chance to Fierce only. :thinking:

By this change, I assume critical hit chance would only spread if a creature was fierce in addition to its other classification? Such as Tryko being both Resilient and Fierce would retain Armour and Critical ratings? That would be a blow to a few creatures such as Erlidominus, for whom its 40% crit chance is one of the reasons it sees play as a Cunning creature as 40% is a big enough number to be considered somewhat consistent. I guess it would need to be reclassified as Cunning/Fierce for that (considering its parent is Indominus Rex anyway)?

And are you then suggesting that critical chance for all non-Fierce would be reduced to 0%? I mean, it would put it on par with Armour and the Evasive idea, as Fierce would get no passive damage reduction, but I think the problem there is Armour and the evasive idea above is guaranteed unless the right skill is used to bypass it; critical hit chance is dependent on the user’s luck.

Still, an interesting idea and it would definitely push the Fierce camp into it’s own uniqueness that much more.

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yea…, maybe not that great of an idea. What if you increase your damage by the % of the critical chance? But, we already have abilities that do that (ferocious strike, ready to crush, etc.)
This is too complicated.

True, might be best to leave that one as it is. Outside of very few creatures, any critical rate above 5% already seems to be a Fierce thing.

Interesting idea all the same! :smiley:

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So this would work like evasiveness in pokemon?

I’m afraid I don’t play Pokemon. Can you describe their system?

It’s been a while, but it works that there is an RNG rolled every turn based on the move used that the move will miss, Pokémon could raise and lower stats to make the move more or less likely to miss, and certain attacks couldn’t miss

Honestly it sounds more like armor, but for cunnings. The armor damage mitigation system works well, but if you straight up gave cunnings armor, than fierce moves would counter them, and you really only want resilients (and sometimes other cunnings) to do that.

2 Likes

OH GODS, NO

There is certainly no need for that level of RNG to be (re)introduced into the game.

Does anyone remember when dodging meant a 50% chance to be hit or not be hit, and the absolute uproar that came about that?

Nonononononono, I’m looking at Evasion being a small-percentage damage mitigation similar to armour but only applicable to the craftier creature types and dealt with by more “accurate” attacks like Precise or Resilient.

Thing is that the RNG usually fails 95% of the time, as it depended on the move used

Yeah, it would be like “every attack has 100% chance to do x% less damage, unless it’s precise/removes dodge”. Dodge moves could increase this percentage (so it would be a 100% chance to dodge the base evasion percent of damage, and an additional chance to dodge the additional damage. For example, if a dino with 20% evasion used Evasive Stance, it would have a 100% chance of dodging at least 20% of the incoming damage, and a 75% chance to dodge 67% of damage, so practically speaking it would be a 75% chance to dodge 67% of damage, and a 25% chance to dodge 20% of damage). Removing dodge would only remove the added percentage, not the base evasion. So basically every dino would be guarantees to dodge a given percent of damage, at least from moves that don’t bypass dodge. I think that gives dodge the consistency it needs to be more viable. And it would be customizable on a case by case basis. Erlidominus could have a base evasion of something like 20-30%, so a “failed” cloak would still dodge some damage. But Indominus Rex could have 0% evasion, so when it’s cloak fails to dodge, it takes full damage.

To be honest, I’m not a fan. There’s already enough rng in the game for me with speedties, crits, and the stunning of resistant creatures. Armor is a stat set in stone, which is good, but maybe give cunnings something else set in stone, because no one is gonna be happy when they get the short end of the rng stick

1 Like