Possible abuse of the leveling system?

I think I have figured a way people are using the game mechanics to their advantage.

I met someone in pvp with all level 10 character and I’m pretty sure he was just now leveling his character (was very very strong and killed my team of 13-14 hero)

It made me wonder why someone would do that and then I had this theory is it possible that he didn’t want to increase his renown so he could keep a smaller pool of character that could get picked in PvP?

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That’s me!

See this thread for example:

I don’t think “abuse” is the appropriate language to use here. Players are not forced to level their characters or increase renown. I’ve publically stated on these very forums that I think that increasing renown/level is a trap.

A large determinant of the character power is equipment, and at level 10, all equipment becomes unlocked. At the same time, staying at renown level 11 means my weakest characters don’t enter my roster. So increasing my renown level to 12 will just decrease my PvP ability for no substantial gain.

Leveling a character is within the player’s discretion. To not push a button that is optional cannot reasonably be called an abuse. I exercise restraint by identifying an optimized point to stop leveling.

Moreover, certain enemies scale with respect to character or renown level based on my understanding. Therefore, levelling your characters makes some of the PvE sections harder.

This game reward players who stops and thinks, whether it’s tactically when fighting monsters or other players, strategically when deciding on party composition and gear or logistically when it comes to how to expend resources or levelling up.

So just because you didn’t think to stop and consider whether leveling a character is actually a good idea, doesn’t mean that someone who does is abusing the system.

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This issue was flagged months ago when the ‘Roster’ system was implemented for PvP.
This is one of many problems of which Ludia is aware but unwilling to correct.

Failure to correct such problems continues to adversely impact the game for many players. I believe this is part of the reason Warriors of Waterdeep is unable to maintain an adequate number of active players.

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You’re begging the question here. I don’t think anyone has provided a convincing argument that this is an issue or a problem.

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Well in dnd you don’t choose to stop leveling and I don’t mind if someone want to stay whatever level they want except regarding the roster selection for PvP

You most certainly can choose when to start or stop leveling in Dungeons and Dragons.

This most frequently came up in earlier editions of Dungeons and Dragons like original, advanced and 2nd with dual classing and Druid or Monk class advancements that required progression within their societies. 3rd edition as well with its unrestricted multiclassing.

Every computer implementations I can remember had players control when level up occurs. Check out anything from the Gold Box series, Baldur’s Gate series, Dark Sun series, Neverwinter Nights series. Level ups always happen with the press of a button.

Dual classing in the context of computer games with experience points caps especially required care not to over level or else it would have prevented the first class from reactivating.

In the pen and paper instances, leveling is often not permitted during an adventure. It requires a period of character downtime to gain new skills and reflect on their own experiences. Again, leveling is at the discretion of the player

I think you’re getting your roleplaying systems confused.

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The problem retsamerol is that the resulting unbalanced PvP matches result in many players leaving the game. Scour the forums and you will see the vast number of related complaints. Players are quitting due to these issues. Ludia has refused to correct the mismatch issues that have been pointed out in the forums and identified to Help and Support. As such, it appears there may not be enough active players to support the operating costs.

@orloch I’m pretty active on these forums and this is the first post I have seen about someone with lower level and better equipment matched against them.

By far the most common complaint is matching against players with higher level characters with better equipment. Alternatively it’s that AI level and difficulty scales with win streaks. I think those complaints have more merit insofar as matchmaking has room for improvement.

The only commonality is that players don’t like losing in PvP. That is unavoidable when there is most often one winner and one lose.

Nevertheless, this is the first and only time to my knowledge that anyone has complained about matching against lower level characters, and I doubt it contributes to anyone leaving the game.

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Losing occasionally to a higher ranked player or bot is expected.

There are many complaints on here about people being matched against lower level characters using far better items. These are frustrating loses which lead to complaints. Those complaining are unaware many players do not continue to level, so they only complain about the obvious effect. In other words, as they are unaware players are not levelling they cannot complain about it. Instead they complain about battling lower level players with far superior items.

Well that sure explains why you face teams with higher level members. Seems a little unreasonable to complain about facing groups with higher levels calling them mis-matches, when if you had leveled your team these matches would look more reasonable. It’s your right and ability to not level up, but to turn around and complain about mismatches makes it look like you want an advantage instead of even matches. Just saying. I’m ready for my reply beating now…


I don’t really see the problem. Match making is determined by trophies and not level. Right now he may have an advantage, but that will go out the window when he starts facing people with equivalent gear 5-6 levels above him. When he does get around to unlocking the rest of his people, they will be VERY far behind and will take a while to get up to snuff. If he wants to take all the disadvantages of lower renown, lower level and asymmetrical character progression for an advantage of a smaller roster for PvP (just one aspect of the game) let him.

Please link to some of these complaints that I’ve missed.

All I am trying to say is that people continue to leave the game due to frustration with PvP.
Correcting unnecessary issues such as this may have prevented many players from abandoning the game.
However, it may be too late as there does not seem to be enough active players left.

Here is one from 10 days ago. They player thought they were facing a bot.

The “complaint” I’ve linked is satirical in nature. It’s a mockery of the high level AI mismatch complaints. Read through that thread. You’ll find that the facade of a complaint is easily pierced.

Most complaints like this arose shortly after the roster system was implemented. I cant remember when that occurred. If you look back into the forums to that time you will find some complaints.

Congrats, you’ve found one complaint that I missed. Nevertheless I don’t think your “many complaints” are bourne out. Can you find another one? Even 2 more and I’ll take your claim more seriously.

The onus is on you to provide evidence to support your statement.

I did read it, throughly too.

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Okay so the set up is that I am apparently complaining about how ridiculous it is for matchmaking when there’s a 32 level difference between the two parties on the first screenshot right?

However, immediately after I post a screenshot where I very nearly win the match (and I would have too if death ward hadn’t procced). This implies that the matchmaking was actually fair(ish).

The satirical message was repeated with another apparent mismatch where I ended up winning.

The thesis, which a few people seemed to have picked up on, was that for PvP, level does not matter. Rather, it’s a matter of quality of equipment, equipment load out and tactical decisions during the match.

So I agree with your original point that it would be unreasonable for me to complain about level based mismatching when I have been keeping my character level low. I just think you missed the fact that I wasn’t actually complaining but instead advancing my admittedly subtle thesis that level doesn’t matter for PvP after you reach level 10.

I agree with your post for the most part.

However what I quoted isn’t true. The characters can be unlocked and not added to the roster. This would allow the accumulation of gear for the character so that when it comes time for them to join the roster, they will have equally strong gear as the other party members.