Ludia Forums

PvP completely unwinnable

Anyone else finding it impossible to win pvp? I’ve lost the last 15 games. Either because of a higher players, legendary weapons, the opposing team always (4 out of six times) hitting critical hits, and/or their stronger characters always hitting their moves (stealth, high damage hits, kill shots, etc…) it’s so uneven it’s nit even fun anymore. I went from winning an average 50% to 15%. Or is it just me?

There are a bunch of posts in this forum about the matchmaking system. I’m not sure what is fact or conjecture in many of them. Some of the terms are vague to me. For example, what is “power?” If the algorithm calculates this based on a characters gear and stats, why then is player level even taken into consideration at all, if it is? What not simply use only trophies so a player will attain equilibrium? To complicate matters they seem to use different methods depending on which pvp event is being done.

Hopefully the issue is rng. I’ve stopped counting the number of die rolls I’ve lost to start a match. Rng here doesn’t seem to follow statistical math even with large sample sizes. I am beginning to suspect they are loading the dice to offset other disparities between players to “even” the teams. That’s a terrible thought lol. Most probably not true.

No help I know, but misery loves company they say.

@Tassthewarrior, I am making the common assumption that the mismatches you are encountering are in event mode. If this is the case, the link below outlines the cause of the issue. Unfortunately, this is a long standing issue which is working as intended by the developer. As such I do not foresee Ludia correcting this issue.

@Orloch In your post above, the term “previous event count” is used, but your table uses your “current count”. Could you please explain that?

@Baladir, I will try and clarify. There are three counts known to be used by Ludia in Event and Battle Mode matchmaking.

By “Current Count” I am referring to your common "Battle Mode" trophy count. These terms are used interchangeably and refer to the same thing. This count was used for all matchmaking before Ludia began rigging the events. This is the most commonly referred to count and is the one used in establishing the trophy count leaderboard.

Previous Event Count” is a new factor Ludia added into the Event algorithm to make match-making worse for event players. It is the accumulated count from a player’s last event. The developer intentionally obscures this number (no one can see it). The number will be extremely high for players who completed the previous event.

Highest Trophy Count” is the highest Battle Mode count you achieved over the past two months.

Events rigging is achieved by using different counts when matching Battle Mode v. Event Mode players:

Battle Mode players are matched based upon their current trophy count aka “Battle Mode Count” which is always the lowest of these three figures.

Event Mode players are matched based upon the greater of either their “Previous Event Count” or their “Highest Trophy Count”. This number is significantly higher.

This allows Ludia to match stronger Battle Mode (free) players against much weaker Event Mode players (paying gems or gold). As an example I have added the profile of one of my recent opponents. I was in Event Mode while my opponent was in Battle Mode. I was matched based upon my Highest Score (approx, 4400) against this opponents Battle Mode/Current Score (4525). Meanwhile, if we were both matched based upon the same value (ie. Highest Score), mine would be less than half of my opponent. Mine is 4400 whiule my opponents is 8920. This extreme case is one example of how the event rigging works and why players are regularly matched against very difficult opponents.

To summarise: rigged game is rigged

Ok, I’m trying to get there. I’m reading this to say that your opponent’s highest trophy count in Battle mode was 8920 and that, through losing many matches, he was able to lower that to 4525, presumably before the patch made losing trophies against lower ranked opponents impossible.

Two things. First, what advantage is there for him to do that? I can’t see a reason. Second, assuming my understanding that this is truly what he did, I’d be laying a lot of the responsibility for this inequity on players who are sandbagging to take advantage of the system.

Sandbagging has always been poor sportsmanship in any competitive game. When used to advantage that tactic ruins what would otherwise be as fair a competition as possible. It is “gaming” the system, not playing the game.

You are in essence saying that the game has developed a system incorporating the unfair tactics of some players to put event players at a disadvantage. In turn the game earns more money because event players have to spend more to have more attempts, which are needed to win enough of the more difficult battles and attain the rewards.

@Baladir, I erred in not providing a bit of background on “Seasons” and “Seasonal Resets”. These are concepts which only apply to players with 2500+ trophies. The sandbagging you have suggested is unlikely and unnecassary. Ludia sandbags all players at the end of each season.

Ludia implemented “Seasons” a few months ago. This was an essential step required to enable effective event rigging. A “season” lasts approximately 1-month. At the end of the season, all players with more than 2500 trophies will have their trophy counts dropped to preset levels. Below is a chart previously provided by Ludia defining these levels.

This reset is what creates the vast gulf between players ‘Current’ Scores and ‘Highest’ Scores. In the case of my opponent, they would have been reset from 8920 down to 3500 at the end of last season. Thus, no sandbagging was required by the player, Ludia sandbags everyone. Having your score reset is unavoidable for players above 2500 trophies.

The event rigging system implemented by the developer is very elaborate and took months to get working correctly. The last update tweaked it a bit and obscure the pre-match trophy counts, making it somewhat more difficult to tell if your opponent is in Battle Mode or Event Mode.

The unfortunate side-effect is that all players in event mode quickly realize match-making is amiss. For most League players event rigging is a frustratingly harsh reality. Those who visit this or other forums at least might understand why.

I hope this background on Seasons and Resets helps clarify things.

Some games do events based off top n players. I wonder if something similar here would help here. Obviously they could add more leagues with static cutoffs. However, doing a league of the top 10/100 players could be a little more dynamic. Then instead of dropping down to a set number way below, would drop to trophy count more in line. Obviously would have to look at the numbers to determine the right cut off.

@Orloch Thank you. Now this is making sense.

@Lonesomepixel I’m going to take a wild guess. The air is always thinner at the top. That could explain why I find plenty of competitive matchups. There is simply a larger pool of players to pull from.

As a new player, the game is treating me more than fair. I did find one thing odd. The two ToMs gave me significantly different strengths of matchups.

I can see from other posts that some players are winning uneven matchups. Others not. Some of the losing streaks are insane. I have to wonder if the algorithm considers a win-loss percentage, or perhaps should if not.