Ludia Forums

Question/Complaint about Battle Mode pairings

Question mainly for those who think this game is balanced and everything that should be random, is. Secondarily for anyone with actual inside knowledge (NOT guesswork, at the very least some sort of careful analysis and not subjective impressions):

Please explain how it is possible to be paired with people who outlevel me literally 85% of the time.

For a few days recently, I was keeping track of my battles in a file in Notepad [see footnote]. I had about 21 or 22 battles recorded. One of the things I recorded was the level differential, i.e., my total levels minus the enemy’s total levels.

  • In one case, it was +2 (i.e. my levels added up to 2 more than theirs)
  • In two cases, it was 0 (our total levels were equal).
  • In ALL the other cases, so let’s conservatively say 17 times, though I’m pretty sure the real number was 18 or 19, it was negative. The most common number seen was -3, but it got as low as -5. More than once.

(The “loading” bug only came up twice, once in my favour and once against me. It was not a major factor.)

I’ve fought six battles since and while I massively outleveled the enemy in one of them (+6, I think), in all other cases the level differential ranged from -2 to -5.

This is almost exactly 85% cases where I’m outleveled, over a sample size that admittedly isn’t as big as we’d ideally like but is more than large enough that, if it were really random, it should have evened out by now, if not perfectly then more than this. (I realize it’s based off trophy count and not levels directly but one assumes they correlate pretty strongly.) I’m going pure F2P and seem to be out-equipped by most of my foes (in particular my level 9 Tomass is garbage compared to the indestructible walking nukes other people have made that character into). Of the battles I recorded, I won more than I lost (about 65%), but there’s also streaks where I lose say 5 out of 6 - case in point, the six battles I’ve fought since I stopped recording. I win more than I lose even when outleveled, but it’s not like I’m steamrolling everyone. Overall I don’t think I punch nearly far enough above my weight class for people who outlevel me by this much, and in particular for people with multiple 11th level characters (I have zero), to be considered my peers.

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[Footnote] Then a Windows update happened, rebooted without warning me even though I’ve done everything in my power to set it up not to do that, and didn’t save my work because the one company that never considers the possibility that their products might be running on a Microsoft operating system, is Microsoft… but that’s a whole other rant. Wiped out a ton of work.)

@jwheikkinen Unfortunately, these unfavorable PvP match-ups work precisely as intended. They are based on trophies not hero levels. Information on this unfavorable event matchmaking algorithm can be found in many other threads. Eventually, once you improve your heroes, you will find event opponents will be approx. 400 trophies or more higher than your count.

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First and foremost are you doing normal pvp battle matches or test of might / special event pvp matches? That makes a big difference. Your normal pvp matches in battlemode are going to pair you against trophy counts in which case levels mean nothing, its trophy vs trophy count and you get paired pretty fairly imo on that front although the first week after an arena reset it can be real screwy since higher ranked people have their scores reset lower.

Now if you are doing test of might pvp events yes your matchmaking is unfair and on purpose. No one really knows how exactly their algorithm works for this but imo it seems to be some kind of compilation of your highest ever arena score +10 to 20% and then character levels also seem to factor into it. Its a “test of might” which means you shouldnt just be able to steamroll people you should have challenging matches. They want you to spend gems as thats how they make money. The problem is that so many of the matches are so unbalanced its impossible to win. That is very demoralizing for anyone playing a game. If you know you have zero chance all that does is piss you off.

I really wish they would redesign their algorithm and how they pair people up. I would personally prefer a system where you just pay a set amount of gems per stage with unlimited attempts and fight people that are evenly matched to you. It is obvious though ludia wants to keep things the way they are though. My biggest gripe about the system right now is that when I was in the 3500 bracket or so I always was paired against people ranked 4500 and lost so many matches. Now that i have leveled and geared up I am wondering where the hell my easy matches are as I never get paired against people in the 3k bracket and i either get people in the top 20 on server or bots that are all lvl 20 with most having maxed legendary items. Even at 4500 i still get matches that are almost impossible to win, the top 5 people are not impossible to beat but they will win against me 90% of the time. It is what it is. they have put their time in and have the gear and are stronger, just gotta take your lump and move on to the next fight.

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The only thing I mentioned running on Windows is Notepad.

Thanks for the replies but I still don’t feel my main question has been answered. How can I nearly always be paired with people significantly above me? Common-sensically, if I’m getting paired up someone else is getting paired down and it should balance out in the medium to long term. Going by username patterns very few of those battles were against bots. If there are actual other players involved all or even most of the time, it should be impossible for everyone to always be outleveled, because for every time someone is on the bad side of those matchups someone else should be on the good side.

I will clarify the algorithm a little better. From my experience during events your opponents will be broken down approximately as follows:

20% Bots (balanced to approx. match your ‘Highest’ trophy count)
20% Event Players (will be close to your ‘Current’ trophy count)
60% Battle Mode players (Will have trophy counts in a range between 200 above your ‘Current’ trophy count and 200 above your ‘Highest’ trophy count. Recent personal testing revealed they average approx. 400 above my current trophy count)

It is the 60% of matches against Battle Mode players where many Event players are significantly disadvantaged.

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Only around a quarter of the ones I recorded were event mode.

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Yes, that is similar to what i experience. These 20 to 25% are the matches that are the most balanced. The remaining 75 to 80% favor the developer :wink:

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I am in the 4500-4700 bracket and the entire event all I faced were the same few people off and on and then a couple matches against fizbanius and flazzy. All of the rest of my battles were bots. I am also wondering where the people ranked 3500 are for easy wins now that i am 4500, because when i was 3500 all i ever faced was 4500 people. Imo it seems like ludia bots people who are not online sometimes and uses a different AI to make it seem like its the real person.

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The more you advance the harder it gets. I usually sit at 3500-4k. I gave up trying to keep my trophy count high. I did hold the top spot when Battle Mode first came out, but am a casual player. I have 3 lvl 18, a 17, 2 16, 2 15 and a lvl 14 pali (don’t play my bard one of my 15). So if you are trying to level past us people who have given up already :grin:…it will seem painful.

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I agree @Pryloc. Interestingly i also ensure my trophy count never exceeds 3999. Additionally, I have also discontinued leveling my heroes. The benefits of doing either are heavily outweighed by punishing challenge rating increases. PvP battles and PvE challenges have remained overtly manageable since I began taking these steps.

@Kingoffarts that because when you are facing easier opponent you are not in an event. As soon you are in tom you get harder opponent.

And just curious what is your in-game name?

No, you misunderstood. Only a quarter or so of the BATTLES I recorded were in event mode. The majority were in battle mode as I always try to fill out all four chest slots before going into event mode, unless I’m close to a prize I actually care about.

Trophy counts were mostly pretty similar, so I guess the question is why are my levels so much lower than other players with a similar trophy count?

@jwheikkinen, I believe I see your concern. I do have a theory which may explain your conundrum. It first must be noted that Battle Mode match-ups are based upon trophy count. In most leagues it appears you will battle the first player available within 200 trophies. Note: The exception to this riule is when the app will use your Battle Mode bout to rout an Event Mode player. These unfortunate individuals will have much lower trophy counts and can be ignored for the purposes of this conversation. These battles are heavily balanced in your favor.

Back to my theory … some players (myself included) experience a trophy decrease of more than 900 at seasonal resets. (I always drop from approx 3950 to 3000) As such, the players I battle early in the season have lower level heroes (on average) than the ones near the end of the season. Not knowing how the seasonal reset impacted your account. it seems possible you may be on the other end of this same spectrum. If my theory is correct you will sometimes be battling players who dropped significantly after the reset. These players are slightly more likely to have higher hero levels. Perhaps this is what you are encountering.

From last Heroic Adventure :joy::joy:

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almost amusing as the name has “whelp” in it which is generally means a lvl 1 weak creature. meanwhile its all 20s and more than likely maxed out legendary’s

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As unbalanced as any part of battle, are the computer generated ‘random’ team selections.

AND

Jwhelkkinen you are correct…

I’ve been playing since day 1 and although players can and will spin it to fit their narrative, the truth is,

MANY times, Battles are just completely UNBALANCED!

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I’ve been in the 3500+ ranking for a while now, I’ve never fought a 4,500 player. And thank goodness too, that would be EXTRA unbalanced :crazy_face:

Fizbanius, were you victorious👻

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There may be balancing issues afoot, but surely from a mathematical point of view 22 times is far too small a sample to get any meaningful insights.

I just flipped a coin 22 times and it came up heads 16 times and tails 6 times (27%). Do I angrily return the coin to the mint and say it’s an unbalanced coin or perhaps I go and foolishly think I can beat my friends by convincing them they should pick tails.