Ludia Forums

Question re bot issues

So … one of the main reasons why PVP changed in the first place (I’m talking previous to last 2 iterations) was because people complained about bots

I never saw any issue with them. Particularly in regards to level mismatches

Over hundred probably more like thousands of matches I never fought anyone with characters more than one level higher than me (real person or bot team regardless of how many matches I won or lost in a row)

I’m thinking that people that had bots with vastly higher level teams were people that were keeping there character and renown level (artificially) low by only levelling gear

I’m wondering Did anyone that levelled characters and renown when they could ever see a bot team (or any other team for that matter) that was substantially higher level than theirs?

If not, and there continues to be problems I can’t see why we can’t just revert to the “original” PvP

(Because level mismatch for those that keep their character level and renown low is largely irrelevant as their gear should be fairly similar)

I level every chance I get, gear or characters, without regard to any kind of strategy… I did many times get bots whose levels were anywhere between 3 and 5 levels higher but trophies were in my range. I have said in other posts I didn’t mind this except for when they gave them trophies lower than mine. It would just cause me to lose even more and drop down against weaker teams again, which seems to be against their purpose. I only ever had this happen when I won like 5 or 6 in a row though

Hmm odd, often win that many in a row and never once seen a bot like that

Did you have large discrepancy in levels between your own characters - all mine were always within 1-2 levels of each other

Nah all mine are usually within a level or maybe 2 of each other except for when I get a new one

Only seen over powered bots when win streak got to 5-6. Although my default bots started a level higher. If it gets a green arrow it gets leveled that second. When I get a rare bot in pvp now it’s always 20. However with my win streaks before I got the bot, I can’t expect anything but 20’s

[FYI, this comment erroneously replied to the correct forum but wrong post]

Prior to Update 12 Bots were consistently similar in level to my heroes. The exception was when I had an extended winning streak I would be matched against level 19-20 bots. This did not bother me because it rarely happened. Bots were reasonably balanced.

Turbotarry i agree with your assessment that most of the complaints about bots were from people who chose not to level their heroes. (ie. renown level 20 players with level 12 heroes) I saw this on a regular basis. Many of these players have posted photos which show their renown level significantly higher than hero level. Additionally, many of these player continue to rant about trophy count not being a reasonable basis for establishing balanced matches. Instead they will demand that PvP be matched via hero level, which would benefit them due to their itentionally decelerated hero progression.

Also, many players continue to mistake real players for bots. There are a plethora of examples (many with photos) here in the forums. A recent example occurred last week. Multiple players steadfastly but erroneously insisted Standingwarrior is a bot.

The average player was generally satisfied with the former bot matches.

I agree with almost everything you have said and I am, I think, the first that made that mistake with standing warrior. However, Dont let renown and levels fool you. . I am at renown 19 but none of my characters are over 13, and I don’t hold back on anything.
Until the last couple of renown levels, where it went up to 7, it only took 6 character level ups to gain a renown. That would mean for every 3 levels of renown my characters would gain an average of 2. I didn’t pay attention before this so if it went from 6 to 7 now was probably less than 6 early on.

I just thought of something. You get renown from leveling your heroes so how could you hold back leveling but gain renown?

I mean you could hold back leveling a specific character but you’d have to level another one instead. Which wouldn’t make a lot of sense

I may be mistaken, it has been a while since i performed the calculation, but, prior to the recent release of Jaraxle, I believe it was impossible for a renown level 20 player to have all characters level 12 or lower without postponing levelling heroes.

My active account is currently level 18 and the average of my 9 heroes is 13+.[5@lvl 14, 3@lvl 13, 1@level 9]

Yeah I don’t think it makes sense if you keep levels low then renown stays low

The easiest way to see is from their health bars - they have crazy health at low levels

I didn’t mean to say you could have all at 12 or under but you could certainly have some. Also, once again the way you gain renown is by leveling heroes you can’t get to 20 without leveling. If someone makes the choice to level a couple of characters to 19 or 20 while leaving some lower that is a valid strategical choice, although I think a poor one. Maybe they are thinking having one monster is better than having all equal… but regardless you can’t gain renown without leveling. Before jarlaxle came I was renown 17 and if I remember correctly I had 2 level 13 6 level 12 and a level 10. It might have been one more 13 and one less 12 but once again I have never not leveled gear or character levels when it is available

The other thing, and please correct me if I am wrong, but all renown does for you is give you the ability to level higher and give you card packs. The way you gain renown is by leveling so if by bit leveling you don’t gain renown and you lose out on equipment.

I guess it also gives you more spots in your pvp roster as well and at lower levels new characters. But what could you gain by keeping renown down.

Renown really doesn’t make any functional difference.

However, hero level does. The stats for Attack, Damage, HP and AC increase with hero level. Many equipped items have multipliers which can result in significant increases. I have won many matches where my last hero is clinging to a thread of health for multiple rounds. Had i not levelled these heroes I would have lost these matches.

Although it is common, I have never really seen the benefit to not levelling the heroes.

Well I was getting 2 dice on lightfinger, jumped 3 renown by levelling Nayeli and A few others and now can’t even get to 2nd boss - so one advantage is easier challenges

I have noticed the difficulty of many challenge rooms has increased since Update 12. I have not recently levelled any heroes and my renown has been the same for a while. I’m not sure if they adjusted anything or if I am struggling due to the Saarvin correction,

I’m curious Turbotarry, did the change you identified correspond with Update 12?

I have never seen anything saying renown has anything to do with difficulty levels. As far as I have ever seen gaining renown just gives “rewards” of one type or another. Card packs, the ability to level your characters higher, more slots for your roster. Are you sure the difficulty didn’t just go up because you leveled? If two things happened at once how do you know which caused the change?

I agree in that I have never seen a good enough reason not to level my characters.
You keep referring to people keeping their levels down but having a high renown though. You can’t do both. Renown is gained by leveling maybe you could keep one character at 12 while leveling another to 20 and gain renown that way but you are still leveling characters. And since, at least where I am now, it takes 7 level ups to gain one level of renown even that doesn’t gain you much in renown. That 8 level difference in character only translates to less than 1.5 levels of renown

The level 20 players were just an example. I have no issue with how renown or hero levels is calculated.

The focal point I was attempting to present is these higher level players with high level heroes captured photos of their lowly heroes being smashed by bots. They followed the photos with fallacious comments such as “look at this unbalanced match. i cant compete. Bots are unfair” or “The game is rigged. The developers have it in for me.”

The previous system functioned smoothly and did an acceptable job of balancing matches. The difficulty level of the bots was usually comparable to the trophy level of the player, including those referenced above.

1 Like

Oh I agree that the bot system was fine. The only issue I ever had with bots, and it didn’t even bother me all that much, is that they always seems to have the max gear for their level. Unless someone is intentionally not leveling up that is very unlikely to happen with a real person. I get that it would probably be difficult to randomize gear in the bots. I could do the math but don’t want to, and the total number of combinations of gear and potential enemies is a very very high number so like I said it didn’t bother me too much.

From what I have seen a 200 trophy difference seems to be the max as far as what you can win or lose. So if there is no one on within that range I’d prefer to fight a bot. Or at least have the option to decline a fight outside of that range. If I want to risk losing 50 to gain 10 that’s ok but i should have the choice.

Yes it was after update that was with/around Nayeli cos that’s when I levelled her lots and a few others to jump 3 renown.

However I found that mind flayers got easier - consistent 2 die to consistent 3 die