Ludia Forums

Rebalancing the Lesser Legendaries [Polls&Discussion]

I’m pretty sure the Legendaries are the most numerous of the hybrid classes in the game, but most of them suffer from the same issue: they’re not good. Several are either squishy, limp damage, both, or bizarre kits. In the tournament last weekend it was fairly obvious how low the diversity was.

The meta relevant ones only seem to be: Moth, Mammotherium, Phorusaura, Indo2, tarkus, Tryo, and Monosteg with the rest having marginal useage. That’s only 7 considered meta relevant out of 41 Legendaries!

It’s pretty easy to identify that a lot of them need some oomph.

Here’s my proposed rebuilds on the ones I thought needed the most help:


Koolabourgiana

Summary

-Basically just a Gemini dna farm for most, but it was originally introduced as a cunning creature that should hit as hard as Erlidominus. It just never kept up with Erlidom’s buffs. The new version hits 200 points harder, and gains a second swap in move, so that it can really throw a wrench at a set up mammotherium or entelomoth by not only distracting but also nullifying. Not sure if 2 swap ins on the same creature is possible, but it’d make it very unique if it is. I guess whichever swap prevention was longest of the two would apply when it comes in.

Original:


New:
4500 HP
1600 Attack
115 Speed
5% Critical

  • Nullifying Strike
  • Short Defense
  • Distracting Strike
  • Instant Invincibility
  • Swap in Distraction
  • Swap in Nullification

What do you think of this rebuild?

  • Still needs a buff
  • It’s Buff Should be More Minor
  • Good Rework
  • It’s Fine How it is Now
  • Now it’s Worse

0 voters


Spinotahsuchus

Summary

-It’s got great ingredients, but it oddly got nothing from kapro except speed. A Legendary should not be moping around with a basic strike in its kit. With the new build it can cleanse out for a swoop, hit definitely like kapro, and be a very dangerous revenge creature.

Original:


New:
3750 HP
1380 Attack
129 Speed
20% Critical

  • Definite Strike
  • Revenge Lethal Wound [New]: 1X. 33.4% DoT for 3 Turns. Delay: 0/Cooldown: 2 Revenge: 1X. 44.4% DoT for 3 Turns. Cooldown: 2.
  • Revenge Critical Impact [New]: 1.5X with a Critical Hit. Delay: 0/Cooldown: 2. Revenge: 2X with Critical Hit. Cooldown: 2
  • Cleansing Swoop

What do you think of this rebuild?

  • Still needs a buff
  • It’s Buff Should be More Minor
  • Good Rework
  • It’s Fine How it is Now
  • Now it’s Worse

0 voters


Rajakylosaurus

Summary

-This guy used to be stuck where it is, but now that ankylosaurs have SV it’s got room to improve. No Escape may seem out of place, but Raja’s basic move was pinning and it creates an interesting role for Rajakylo. Now when it’s in, you have no choice but to munch through it’s shields and armor with whatever is in. It’s still slow and fairly weak in damage potential so it’s still obliterated by chompers as intended.

Original:


New:
4350 HP
900 Attack
104 Speed
30% Armor
10% Critical

  • Superior Vulnerability
  • Long Protection
  • Extended Critical Strike
  • Instant Invincibility
  • 1X Armor Piercing Counter
  • Immune to Vulnerability
  • No Escape

What do you think of this rebuild?

  • Still needs a buff
  • It’s Buff Should be More Minor
  • Good Rework
  • It’s Fine How it is Now
  • Now it’s Worse

0 voters


Spinonyx

Summary

-I love this guy, but his stats are :-1:. Honestly. Both parents hit harder, and bary2 has more hp. In this version it gets some bumps to attack and HP to better reflect its heritage and ingredient strength. Still not a hard hitting powerhouse, but it can take more of a beating now in exchange for 1 speed point.

Original:


Nýtt:
4670 HP
1190 Attack
123 Speed
20% Critical

  • Minor Rending Attack
  • Lethal Wound
  • Precise Rampage
  • Definite Rampage
  • Immune to Deceleration

What do you think of this rebuild?

  • Still needs a buff
  • It’s Buff Should be More Minor
  • Good Rework
  • It’s Fine How it is Now
  • Now it’s Worse

0 voters


Gigaspikasaur

Summary

-One of the Nodopato triplets. The best way I felt was to separate them based on speciality. Stegod is the muscle, NPtitan is the soaker, and Gigas is going to get more prickly. The main difference is the change in counterattacks to Simple Rending, which with all its armor and HP could make it more effective. It’s lives up to its bio now also with a defense against “aerial threats” aka swooping moves with On Escape Defense.

Original:


New:
4750 HP
930 Attack
109 Speed
40% Armor
5% Crit

  • Lockdown Strike
  • Rampage
  • Decelerating Impact
  • Short Defense
  • Simple Rending Counter Attack
  • On Escape Defense [New]: On Swap out, Cleanse. Shield for 2 turns.

What do you think of this rebuild?

  • Still needs a buff
  • It’s Buff Should be More Minor
  • Good Rework
  • It’s Fine How it is Now
  • Now it’s Worse

0 voters


Nodopatotitan

Summary

-Arguably the worst of the Nodopato triplets. It’s bulky, but that’s pretty much it. I think it’d be interesting to morph that Giraffatitan SIA Slow with Nodopat’s middling counter into a full Decel counter. It’s kit is also bolstered by becoming immune to slows, which improves its matchups against other tanks.

Original:


New:
5240 HP
1080 Attack
108 Speed
40% Arnor
20% Critical

  • Superiority Strike
  • Decelerating Impact
  • Long Protection
  • Bellow
  • 1X Decelerating Counter
  • Immune to Deceleration

What do you think of this rebuild?

  • Still needs a buff
  • It’s Buff Should be More Minor
  • Good Rework
  • It’s Fine How it is Now
  • Now it’s Worse

0 voters


Bajatonodon

Summary

-This thing really is pretty disappointing. It had a lot of potential from edmontoguana. This version has a new monster move in Revenge Devastation, and loses speed control for more damage. DoT immunity is exchanged for Stun immunity, since DoT immunity is much too common and eliminating stuns forces more distractors and shields to come into play in mitigating that RD3X turn 1. I know Bajada is immune to DoT, but it feels out of place on its superhybrid successor. Plus it’s got two stunners in the bloodline, you’d think it would be immune to that anyway?

Original:


New:
5400 HP
1060 Attack
111 Speed
5% Critical

  • Superior Vulnerability
  • Revenge Devastation [New]: 3X. Delay: 2/ Cooldown: 1. Revenge: No Delay. Cooldown: 2.
  • Greater Stunning Rampage
  • Regen&Run
  • Swap in Heal
  • Immune to Stuns

What do you think of this rebuild?

  • Still needs a buff
  • It’s Buff Should be More Minor
  • Good Rework
  • It’s Fine How it is Now
  • Now it’s Worse

0 voters


Diloranosaurus

Summary

-Oddly this whole hybrid line feels like it got nothing out of Dilo except an ounce of distraction. A simple buff is to swap Impact&Run for Nullifying Impact, Revenge Null Impact in fact. Then it has a simple option to use it back to back if you want to. Diloracheirus can reintroduce the ability to run since it fuses with deinocheirus. That way the two hybrid levels offer different play strategies.

Original:


New:
4200 HP
1200 Attack
126 Speed
5% Critical

  • Superiority Strike
  • Distracting Impact
  • Revenge Nullifying Impact [New]: 1.5X. Remove Positive Effects. Delay: 0/Cooldown: 1 Revenge: No Cooldown.
  • Greater Stunning Rampage

What do you think of this rebuild?

  • Still needs a buff
  • It’s Buff Should be More Minor
  • Good Rework
  • It’s Fine How it is Now
  • Now it’s Worse

0 voters


Ankyntrosaurus

Summary

-No one really bothers with Ankyntro. It’s almost exclusively a dna farm for Tryko, despite being made of two epics unlike numerous other legendaries. This version benefits from the powerful and improved Thagomizer which deals 2 damage values calculated together: 1.5X of your base damage combined with a 25% armor piercing Rend of their health. It also gets a superb attack increase closer to Kentro that makes it less of a farm and more of a bruiser.

Original:


New:
4980 HP
1290 Attack
115 Speed
30% Armor
5% Critical

  • Nullifying Strike
  • Thagomizer [Reworked]: 1.5X and Deal 25% Armor Piercing Max HP Damage. Slow 3 Turns. Delay: 0/ Cooldown: 3
  • Instant Distraction
  • Instant Invincibility
  • .5X Counterattack
  • Immune to Vulnerability

What do you think of this rebuild?

  • Still needs a buff
  • It’s Buff Should be More Minor
  • Good Rework
  • It’s Fine How it is Now
  • Now it’s Worse

0 voters


Megalosuchus

Summary

-This thing is an oddity. A Siberian tiger in razor wire it is not. This version is a near total rework that brings it closer to Gorgosuchus than it is a counterattacker. Since all 3 ingredients have a ferocious move, it feels appropriate to let it have FI, and the .5X Decel counter helps it stay in front of its match ups. I know some might rather it have it in a full counter set up, but without armor, immunities, or any cleansing it feels fairly ineffective at that role. It’s still under Gorgosuchus’s set up rampage damage, but the multi-turn damage potential is higher.

Original:


New:
4440 HP
1380 Attack
116 Speed
10% Critical

  • Definite Strike
  • Short Defense
  • Ferocious Impact
  • Defense Shattering Rampage
  • Lesser Decelerating Counter [New]: .5X Counter on physical damage. Slow 1 Turn.

What do you think of this rebuild?

  • Still needs a buff
  • It’s Buff Should be More Minor
  • Good Rework
  • It’s Fine How it is Now
  • Now it’s Worse

0 voters


Stegodeus

Summary

-I think the only change Stegod needs is to receive the improved Thagomizer (Detailed in Ankyntrosaur’s Balancing). It’s already fringe competitive with its stats, it just suffers from immunities now, so a heftier Thagomizer could get it back in the zone.

What do you think about this adjustment?

  • Agree
  • Disagree
  • Undecided

0 voters


Darwezopteryx

Summary

I think it would be benefited best just by the simple addition of No Escape. Then it’s better connected to Stygidaryx, and it’s speed advantage on swapping would lock out other swap ins like Monosteg, Rat, or Sino.

Do you think of this adjustment?

  • Agree
  • Disagree
  • Undecided

0 voters


Dilophoboa

Summary

-It’s stats are brittle and illogical considering both parents hit harder and Titanoboa has significantly more HP. These new HP and Attack stats are closer to the true average between parents, and now frillysnek would be a legitimate threat.

Original:


New:
3900 HP
1440 Attack
117 Speed
10% Critical

Same Kit.

What do you think of this adjustment?

  • Agree
  • Disagree
  • Undecided

0 voters


Grylenken

Summary

-I don’t have an idea here any different from what most others have come up with on the forum, namely: a ferocious move, sidestep, and a shattering move. It’s kit right now is bizarre.

Do you agree with this kit change idea?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Undecided

0 voters


Pteraquetzal

Summary

-It’s really pretty close to being useable, it just needs an edge. I think adding Swap In Defense, and a new move: Revenge Impact&Run would make the difference. The Revenge could be its useable on Turn 1, so you can come in with it to finish something off and be gone right away to something else safely.

What do you think about this adjustment?

  • Agree
  • Disagree
  • Undecided

0 voters


Carbotoceratops

Summary

-For an Exclusive+Epic, this thing is not as good as it should be. It should gain about 400-500 HP to even be at par with its turtle father.

What do you think about this adjustment?

  • Agree
  • Disagree
  • Undecided

0 voters


Monomimus

Summary

-Oh dodgstrich, how far you’ve fallen. To be completely honest, I do not know a competitive kit that would bring it up to fighting ranks. I will note it’s damage is quite low, it has just the one multiplier move, and it is pretty slow for a speedster. It needs redo’s on many fronts.

Do you agree Monomimus needs a buff?

  • Yup
  • Yeah
  • Yes

0 voters

Thank you all for your time :slight_smile:
This ended up being like a vague cousin poll with @Starlinger27’s lol which was unintentional. That very well put together poll did point me to which Legendaries affirmatively needed new ideas on buffs and reworks, and which ones are closer to norm. It’s mind boggling how many are bad or considered bad compared to how many are actually are good for their rarity. It is an endgame rarity even if they aren’t superhybrids in every case, so they really deserve to be stronger. Also I have several deviations on creatures with 1000 damage because I’ve heard it complained about often that that flat 1000 number is boring to gameplay. If you guys have your own ideas, as always feel free to share!

8 Likes

I’ll take a look tomorrow. Too tired now

2 Likes

I can imagine after making your massive poll lol yours is way more important anyway :grinning:

2 Likes

Idk if it’s more important. My poll shows if creature needs an adjustment (according to majority), and yours shows how to adjust it :slightly_smiling_face:
As I said, I’ll take a look at these ideas tomorrow. Goodnight

3 Likes

Koolabourgiana
This thing could easily have 1800 Attack without breaking anything. It only has 1x moves which basically means it has the equivalent of 1200 or 900 attack (compared to 1800).

Spinotasuchus
Definite Strike is an interesting idea. It gives it a lot more utility against some of the dodgers and immune tanks (Turtles etc).
The Revenge abilities are probably a bit over-the-top. I do like the idea of Cleansing Swoop though.

Rajakylosaurus
I don’t think No-Escape makes sense on this dino from an evolutionary perspective. I think the “Rajasaurus in the room” here is Extended Critical Strike. This is a move that existed at 1.5 crits but never changed after the switch. It was basically an awful Ferocious Strike and now is atrocious. I feel like Pinning Strike needs a rework too (it is the worst basic in the game outside of Strike).

So, I think the Crit could go up to 20% (to match Raja). Extended Critical Strike could become Extended Critical Impact. If I had my way, maybe it could have a Pin + Vulnerable basic move. Pinning Vulnerability. This would make this dino a bit of a pain to deal with because after it Pins you, your next attack will suffer 1.5 counter.

Spinonyx
Stats can go a long way.

Giga
I like this change.

Noodle
This is a cool idea. I actually think most sauropods should be immune to decelleration.

Baja
Ok, revenge Devastation is kind nuts. I have no idea what to do with this dino. It feels like it is missing a move…

Dilo
Not sold on this. Diloracheirus gets its run from Ourano, not Deinocheirus. Dilorano also gets its speed from Dilo… An extra nullifying move would be a nice change though. Not sure where it could fit without drastically changing it.

Ankytro
Attack buff is a good idea. Thagomizer… not sold.

Megalo
Ferocious seems like an idea. With the attack buff may be a bit much. Likewise with Rampage. This might just be a bit over the top.

Stegodeus

Darwez
I agree this would be a good change, perhaps to Darwin too. Not sure this is enough to ensure competitiveness.

Boa
I feel like the counter just doesn’t work as intended and artificially lowers the stats in Ludia’s formulas. So yeah, a stat boost could help a lot.

Grylenken
No idea

Pteraquetzal
I used this for a while. Underwhelming. Swap-in-Defense is an idea… I do like Revenge Impact and Run. That with Swap-in-Defense makes a very unique and interesting Dino… a bit like a mini-Stygidaryx (always a good idea).

4 Likes

Solid input!

Would rather have old creatures reworked than having new ones added, espcially hybrids we have enough already

1 Like

Dilophaboa she be a lot better than its parents to be honest for it being a legendary.

Carboceratops should be a lot stronger than its parents because it is a legendary

The last question though :rofl:

1 Like

At first glance, the new Meg you propose sounds good. However, with the immunity in the meta, that decel counter wouldn’t be as useful as a full APC.
I’d prefer no change over this one.

2 Likes

Very valid and something I forgot to consider actually when I put its kit together. Glad to have the Meg expert weigh in!

1 Like

i will say on pteraquetzal, the revenge impact and run wont work if it is locked down by its swap in ability activating. That is if i’m reading that right.

1 Like

Good point, I’m not really even sure if revenge moves stay charged if you swap since that counts as a turn. I was thinking in my head to come in with your pteraquetzal if you have the speed advantage naturally to swap back again safely the same turn with RI&R.

Sorry if that was confusing the way I worded it in the OP, my bad

Maybe if it was designed to work with the swap in defense, the revenge version could cleanse so you could complete the swap?

having the revenge version cleanse lockdown could work. But it all depends on if you can use a revenge move thats on a swapped in creature. The way i understood them was you bring in the creature with the revenge move immediately after a creature death. Definitely would need some clarification on that point. But as just a normal revenge impact and run (0 delay), i think it could be useful in plenty of situations.

About Rajakylosaurus, I don’t think it needs speed control to be good. I’d like to see some good non-speed-control tanks, that’s why I didn’t like when Ludia slapped Superior Vulnerability on everything.

I’m actually surprised that the poll for Koolabourgiana shows that I really could’ve went higher for damage. It’s very interesting that most agree 1600 base damage still isn’t enough to be considered good.


I thought the Revenge Bleed might be intense, I tried to keep the DoT maximum to an official limit that Maiming wound set, just for 3 turns instead of 2. I wondered if an 11% increase might’ve been too strong. Since there are so many immunities around I just felt like since it has none it deserves to be good at its niche when it is actually allowed to work it’s kit.


I absolutely agree with Rajakylo, Extended Crit is a relic worth forgetting. I was afraid of making it overly offensive for its role, but it seems the poll has several who agree it needs more teeth even over SV. Crit Impact could be a missing piece it needs that I didn’t consider! (I was thinking of going towards ferocious actually like Dio).


I did try to totally reinvent Baja and I knew RD would be scary lol. I tried to balance it with big cooldowns so that it either has to leave right after or churn out SV’s for multiple turns no matter what choices it makes when it comes in. It pretty much just gets one big hit that’s not really that big, still outdone easily by Erlidom, Thor, Spyx and others for turn 1 damage. It’s a situational thing to have if redone this way. But man it’d be beautiful to have if you just got Ko’d by a rat lol. It’s just a really wonky hybrid anyway you do it :laughing:


Meg was my big risk, seems I might’ve went counter to what most want. In reality I think a simple swap to get 1X Decel counter is enough to make it useable, but I thought I’d be creative and rework it into something like Tryko being a heavy hitter with a light counter. No problem eating my bad idea :laughing:


Darwez is in a semi precarious position, it’s only room for a buff beyond No Escape would seem to be stat related. But I wasn’t sure so I didn’t touch it. Any other ideas are welcome for sure of ways to improve it!

Thanks again for your input on these guys, couldn’t put in a thorough response earlier

1 Like

And about Nodopatosaurus, I kinda miss Giraffatitan’s Rampage. It’s a really solid Rare, and Nodopatotitan could just be a more well-armoured version, maybe with some Vulnerability added, along with Long Protection.

Of course, a completely different moveset could work too.

1 Like

I agree. Like @Goobahfish added it’d be great to have maybe like a Vulnerability+Pinning move. That’d be perfect for something like Rajakylo

The speed control on every tank that exists does get tiresome for sure

1 Like

I did actually have it’s Decel Impact replaced with a straight Rampage, but I worried it would be considered over the top with the new Immunity plus the counter

Honestly I’d prefer the rampage over the Decel edit: As long as it’s not considered unbalanced by everyone

Challenge accepted.

So, I’m thinking we could buff Extended crit Strike to guarantee a crit on every turn. Either that, or buff Raja and Rajakylo’s crit chances to 40%.

Then both Rajasaurus and Rajakylo could get a new passive:

Inherent Ferocity: All critical hits dealt by this creature deal 1.75x damage.

How about that?

4 Likes