Ludia Forums

Resilient Questionnaire

Thought I’d follow up with a hotter topic.

What is the best Resilient Creature in the game?

  • Ardentismaxima
  • Trykosaurus
  • Stegodeus
  • Tragodistis
  • Diorajasaur
  • Ankyntrosaurus
  • Alankylosaurus
  • Rajakylosaurus
  • Ardontosaurus
  • Brontolasmus
  • Mammotherium
  • Mammolania
  • Testacornibus
  • Nodopatotitan
  • Gigaspikasaur
  • Geminititan

0 voters


Do you feel like having a Resilient creature is necessary to your progression in the arena?

  • Yes
  • No

0 voters


How often does using a Resilient creature give you a good matchup in the arena?

  • Always
  • Often
  • Sometimes
  • Hardly
  • Never

0 voters


Resilient checks Cunning, but do you feel they are countered well enough by Fierce and Bleeders?

  • No, they beat their counters
  • They usually Draw
  • Yes, their counters beat them

0 voters


How useful are Resilient creatures in non-hybrid tournaments?

  • Crucial
  • Useful
  • Good
  • Not Good
  • Really Not Good
  • Detrimental

0 voters


On a scale of 1-10, how good are Resilient creatures in 2.0? (The group as a whole, not just Maxima and Tryko :wink:)

  • 10 (Exceptionally Good)
  • 9
  • 8
  • 7
  • 6
  • 5 (Mediocre)
  • 4
  • 3
  • 2
  • 1 (Unusable)

0 voters


Do you feel like too many creatures have access to a Resilient move?

  • Yes
  • No

0 voters


Has the role of Cunning and Evasive creatures diminished since the arrival of Resilient moves?

  • Yes, Greatly
  • Yes, Somewhat
  • Unchanged
  • No, Cunning is still Good
  • No, Cunning is still Great

0 voters


Do you want more Resilient creatures in the future?

  • Yes Please!
  • Go extinct.

0 voters


What Resilient hybrid type combo do you most want to see?

  • Resilient/Resilient
  • Resilient/Fierce
  • Resilient/Cunning
  • Resilient/Stunner
  • Resilient/Healer
  • Resilient/Bleeder
  • Resilient/Ferocious
  • Not Interested

0 voters


Is there anything you’d change about the Resilient class?

  • Yes (Explain)
  • No

0 voters


Again, no real purpose to this. Just wanna see the consensus :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like

Resilience just does too much, if it was simply precise then I’d say it would be fine, or switch resilient with superiority but keep the distribution the same

4 Likes

Resilient is too strong and too common place. If we have to have it, it should be precise not something to counters/removes dodge effects.

8 Likes

I do want more Resilient creatures, but I’d specialise the current ones a bit. I don’t think that all of them need to hard-counter evasion, especially the hybrids. They’re too good in too many scenarios right now.

3 Likes

Yeah,it does too much things…
-remove speed up
-Slow down by 50%
-Remove cloaks
-Cleanse distraction
If it was as rare as cautious strike,i would agree but there is around 70 creatures to get it.

1 Like

I’m really torn on the strength of resilient moves. I agree that resilient attacks probably do too much, but I’m not sure how to fix them. I used to think that just making them precise would be enough, but having a way to remove dodge and cloak is critical for the game (especially in raids), just like having a way to remove shields is important. So I actually wouldn’t touch that aspect of the move. But distraction removal and deceleration are important, too.

I think most of the problem with resilients is that they aren’t very well countered by fierce, either from them being too weak, or due to a lack of fierce creatures at the high levels of the area. A lot of the stigma against resilient is also specifically due to Maxima and Tryko, because they tend to beat their counters. Stegodeus and Dio are also powerful as resilient creatures, but they are much easier to counter because they are PURE resilient hybrids - they don’t have access to high damage and defense shattering like Maxima and Tryko do. In fact, against non-speedsters, Stegod feels rather weak, which I would argue is the countering system working as intended. So I wonder how imbalanced resilients as a whole really are. I’m especially curious about the current tournament, where these two are absent. Against most speedsters, resilient strike is just as strong as superiority strike, so I honestly think that wouldn’t change too much.

Cunning also has a distinct advantage because of it’s low HP. Resilient and Fierce dinos are easy to swap in as counters because resilients have high health (to protect them from cunning) and generally do low damage (protecting fierce from swapping in). But if a cunning creature tries to swap in on a fierce without a swap-in distraction or dodge, it’s just going to die. This also means they have to invest more boosts into HP in order to stay relevant, while the other classes can pour all their boosts into attack.

My point is that the whole “rock paper scissors” thing that Ludia is going for is clearly broken, with the dominance of resilients being the main symptom. But the cause is probably more complicated than the strength of resilient attacks.

2 Likes

I’d make resilient so it doesn’t do all of the things it does. It is much too powerful, basically a lesser and different cautious strike.

1 Like

Maybe let it keep the speed erasing, Distraction cleansing and the speed debuff? That way, a creature would be able to stay faster than their opponent? But the idea of getting rid of Cloak/Evasion is very helpful sometimes… It is hard to choose which ones we might want to keep.

1 Like

Basically, the easiest solution to make resilient balance is to not make them remove dodge. Only bypass dodge. And don’t make them soo common. Counter attacking therapods should be fierce, not resilient. They are made specifically to do a lot of damage, why are they resilient? Ludia is incompetent at sticking to a good system.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t changed anything about resil in 2.1.

Like others have said, they do too much. There were loads of complaints about CS doing too much, and these now do just as much. There are also far too many dinos with it, including some that probably shouldn’t have it (Sarcorixis).

Personally, I’d get rid of the ability to remove or even bypass dodge. You want to get rid of a cloak? That’s the point of having Nullifying dinos. Dodge only has a 50% chance of working now anyway, so it’s not like dodgers will still be powerful.

2 Likes

Besides being based on carnivorous dinosaurs, what evidence is there IN GAME that they are supposed to do a lot of damage? They seem to have average damage to me. I’ve never heard anyone complain about any counter attacking theropods being too strong, not even Dio. And Tryko doesn’t count because it’s a hybrid with a chomper. So I have no problem with them being resilient.

1 Like

This would be true pre-2.0, but nullify is actually quite rare now. Only 10 dinos actually have them (Yoshi only has it as a counter). Many of these are actually cunning themselves, and you don’t want a situation where only dodgers can beat other dodgers (like we had before). Requiring a resilient creature on your team does limit the meta, but requiring one of these ten dinos to beat dodge limits it even more.

So this illistrates the need for some dinos to be able to remove dodge and cloak, and these should belong to the class that’s meant to counter dodgers - the resilients. Between defense shattering, fierce, definite, and rending moves, 66 dinos can break shields. Between resilient, definite, and raking moves, 69 dinos can remove dodge. That’s pretty comparable. Granted, shield users are far more common than dodge users, but both shield breaking and dodge removal should be common nonetheless. Though there is a case for there to be a few less resilient users (hadrosaurs and counter attacking therapods come to mind, though the later I know I just argued should be resilient, and some like Dio still could be through their other resilient components). But I don’t think dodge removal on resilient moves is bad, we just aren’t used to it. I think it has an important job, and there are other aspects of resilient attacks and the overall strength of each class that we should examine instead. I would rather they leave resilient alone, and reduce the number of precise moves (specifically superiority strike/vulnerability, shielded decelerating strike, and devestation). Then have them replace some resilient moves (like on Hadrosaurs, counter-attacking theropods, maybe sarcorixes, etc.) with superiority attacks instead.

This is just evasive stance, which for the record I think should be buffed back up to 75% chance.

2 Likes

I agree and I disagree. How it currently stands, there is no reason to take a dodge based creature anymore. A whole slew of creatures have been made pointless but I can see why some players would want a counter to them. The current version is just too powerful in that regard.

Agreed but now Resilient has nullified nullify creatures.

1 Like

The question of dodge removal is hard, because while it’s annoying in pvp, its a necessity in some raids (like smilonemys). If a dino puts up a shield, there is a role designed to remove it so that your teammates can do more damage. So if a dino puts up a dodge, shouldn’t there be a class designed to remove that too? We just aren’t used to dodge removal being so common. There are plenty of fierce and defense shattering moves in the game, but no one ever complains about shield users being useless.

1 Like

Now that I think about It, you’re right, being only precise wouldn’t actually fix the problem with resilient moves. What i think would really fix this meta wouldn’t even require any change to resilient moves. That would be to just increase variety for the system to actually work. Now we have mostly wild card hybrids dominating the meta, but buff our current bleeders, add new good ones, add new ferocious-fierce creatures that are end game relevant. Then we will see cunning creatures being relevant without having to change a thing about resilient, even better, increasing variety and maintaining the use of resilient moves against dodge on raids. I used to think that there were too many creatures with resilient moves but the true issue is that we are severely lacking in the group of creatures that are their perfect counters.

1 Like

It really is all about picking your matchup. Just like I would never send an Ankylosaurus into a T rex, but would send one into a velociraptor, I wouldn’t send an Erlidominus into a Maxima. But I would absolutely use it against Thor. Those resilient counters just don’t exist at the highest levels of play, and those that we do have can even be beaten by the two strongest resilients. I would love to see more top-level bleeders and ferocious users, and I agree that they would help a lot.

2 Likes

Not just resilient but slows in general: they, like speed-up moves, SHOULD. NOT. STACK.

1 Like

I feel like resilient strike kind of makes superiority strike like an Allosinosaurus to a Thoradolosaur both comparisons have the more common counterpart better than the more rare version. So as a purposeful I suggest that the speed decrease become 25% rather than 50%(makes speed resis more useful) that way it is a bit more justified.

1 Like

I was referring to theropods like Megalosaurus or Majungasaurus or Concavenator not tryko or dio.
They have abilities, like Megalosaurus, that increase their damage and they’re counter also pierces armor or in Concavenators case, shatters shield. Yet they have Resilient attacks which doesn’t make sense since they are supposed to counter only Resilient not Cuninng and Resilient.