Ludia Forums

Reworking RNG based attack - Part 1

#1

As title, I would like to suggest some global reworks for the Stun and Evasion mechanics in the game. Because it is too RNG based and I think many players agree that they are frustrating to deal with.

In part 1, I’m going to start with Stun attacks.

Why ?

On top of the reasons listed above, I found stun move to be over the top as an effect. When it lands, it force the opponent to skip 1 turn, essentially preventing 100% damage, and all kind of negative effects that would have applied. So, they are basically attack that give you invincibility shield and immunity for 1 turn. And don’t even mention Stunning impact / rampage and Instant Stun - high damage / priority move that grant you invincibility and immunity. In comparison, shielding strike and distraction is much less effective. Instant Stun is miles away better than Instant invincibility and Instant distraction.

Using Immune Creatures to counter ?

We have to recognize that Immune also affect distraction. So neither Stun nor distraction could affect immune creatures. But in other circumstance, Stun is much more effective than distraction and thus is better overall.

While shield is not affected by immune, it happens that many immune creatures also have defense shattering or nullify. Besides, shield is just generally lack luster and is no way comparable to stun in all other areas. Hence overall, Stun is also much better than shield.

The Goal

  1. Reduce (remove) RNG and introduce more tactical plays
  2. Rework the effect so that it does not overshadow shields and distraction
  3. Retain the basic functionality so that the new effect is also a debuff on the target etc. So that the overall usage and feeling of relevant dinos still feels more or less the same.

The Idea

Replace Stun with Confusion (always 100% apply to the target)
Confusion : Target’s next attack will also damage itself. Effect last for 1 turn.

Concerned moves : Stunning Strike / impact / rampage / Instant Stun will change “Stun” to “Confustion”
Unconcerned moves : acute stun / Swap-in stun (should give it 100% stun)

Modification to their base damage
Confusion Strike : Deal 0.25 damage
Confusion Impact : Deal 0.5 damage
Confusion Rampage : Deal 0.75 damage
Instant Confusion : Deal 0.1 damage

Explaination :
After being hit with Confusion, the target next attack (expire after 1 turn) also apply the damage to themselves.

For exemple, under confusion. a T Rex used Defense shattering rampage. It deals 3000 critical damage to the opponent, and instantly deal 3000 critical damage to itself.

This effect is not a counter attack, but a debuff on the target (same as Stun), so even the original attacker is dead, the damage will still be done to the target itself.

The damage will be reduced by the armour / shield that are in effect. Example, a confused Alanqa will deal 2000 damage to the opponent, but 0 damage to itself if it has invincibility shield in effect.

Confusion is good against :
Chompers, high attack - low health creatures, creatures who don’t have non-attack moves
high-counter attack creatures

Confusion is weak against :
Tanks, bleeders, immune creatures, cleanse & regenerate

With careful timing, if you are slower in speed, you can use confusion to force the opponent to use a non-attack / low attack move to interfere them. If you are faster, you can anticipate a high attack move and make them chomp on themselves, while both of you have to play mind games.

Confusion is weak against most tanks and bleeders. As they either have higher defense (making confusion less effective), or they rely on DOT to deal high damage (doesn’t affected by confusion).

With this change, we would have less RNG in the game and a counter to high attack creatures / moves, as well as strengthen the role of Tanks / shields / armor.

#2

Not sure how I feel about this yet but very well laid out!

2 Likes
#3

No. Just no. This would make Stegoceratops a joke and render instant charge pretty much useless. If Stegocera takes on Tryko, Tryko will just do instant moves and take no damage at all.

#4

I certainly think that with this change for the stun moves (assuming we actually do it), some dinos will need a re-arrangement of move-sets, especially those who are highly relying on stun attacks.

#5

You lost me at a Rampage doing .75

#6

You have to keep in mind the target will deal damage to themselves, that’s why the base damage is low.

So in practice it is .75 damage + target’s self damage.

A good usage could mean dealing potentially more damage than the current stun rampage.

#7

While I will give you that your idea is both very lucid and well thought out, personally I would have to vote against it in its entirety, both in removing stun moves, as well as implementing your suggestion.

There’s a reason its so effective when it lands successfully, and also a reason every move with stun has a rather long (comparative) cooldown, not to mention that its pretty rare a creature has more than one stun in its kit. Realistically speaking, a lot of a stun’s potential in many cases comes from the head game of when is it going to be used. Thor is a great example. The second turn Instant Charge, given many creatures are faster than Thor, means as long as Thor can survive the best hit you can dish (esp if crit chance is low), you have to decide if you get DSR or IC coming your way and try your best to plan accordingly.

Its also not always about the stun itself, sometimes a quick stun can be used to buy yourself time or set yourself up for a better position. Versus Indo, many times a stun will allow you to at the very least burn through their entire evasion and set yourself up for a revenge kill with minimal loss or risk. Getting the stun in, and off, the turn they use evasion means they are not able to do anything at all next turn, instantly burning two turns of the evasion (unless it just happens to be you kill them with the stun). Whether your creature lives or (likely) dies that third turn, you know at least you have a solid shot of taking them out the turn after or at least do some major damage and they can do nothing about it except potentially swap.

Stuns aren’t just about hitting the button as soon as it comes up as fast you can…use them to your advantage as part of the mind game with your opponent! Just knowings its there can throw them off, esp if you don’t use it immediately. Instant Charge can be a game changer if you save it for the right moment, even if you just save it for the damage output!

1 Like
#8

I’m sure Stun is very effective, and it is actually why I made this whole thread.

It is an attack + defense move blending together which is unbelievably powerful. In fact, stun is a better defense option than the moves that were meant to be defensive, like I’ve talked about.

Hence, it is not only about minimizing RNG but also re-positioning these kind of move into a more unique position, where they will have their function, and at the same time leave some space for traditional defensive moves.

Because currently, if you want to be defensive, you would better stun the target than putting up a shied or using distraction. And hence, you would rather use creatures with stun than those with shields and distraction. If you are designing a Tank, you better give it stun than shield and distraction because stun is actually the best defensive tool right now.

#9

just add confusion as a new move. sounds cool but change the name… sounds to much like pokemon

2 Likes
#10

That’s what I was gonna suggest. A new mechanic, but keep stunning as is.

3 Likes
#11

swap in confusion lol

#12

If people want stun to stay around, shield and distraction need to be much stronger, because right now they are just a much worse version of stun.

#13

Swap in confusion: all opponents attacks are jumbled so if they hit distracting impact it might be slowing strike

1 Like
#14

yeah and diloracherius would own lol

#15

I know right lol
I thought of something like “retaliation”, but then it sounds like a kind of counter attack. But the effect is not a counter attack (even the Dino died, the target would still damage itself), so I just went with it, just placeholder anyway.

#16

maybe “self inflict”

1 Like
#17

Existing move: Swap in cognitive dissonance. When players who hated swap in DSR when it was Draco g2 , but :heart: it now that it’s Dracocera.

#18

Stun is OP indeed, but technically it doesn’t “also” do the same as distraction and invincibility, because those defensive moves not only prevents damage but also makes the opponent waste attacks with cooldown.

#19

That is true. It is a little edge that they have over with stun, just still, overall I 'd say they are lacking behind.