Season 3 Trophy bad algorithm


#1

The algorithm for trophies in this tournament is so dreadfully whack. Beat someone 11-25 ranks lower than you, earn 1-4 trophies. Defeated by them, lose 40-59 trophies.

Might need to go back to the drawing board on this one, Ludia


#2

sounds like a connection issue - try turning off wifi.


#3

That’s not a connection issue, that’s a “how Ludia set up their trophy algorithm” issue


#4

yes, and thats pretty much their stock response to any and all problems.

just trying to help them out in case they aren’t around.


#5

This is what I noticed too from the start of this season.

Trying for a win, just for 17 points… with the prospect of losing 30 points is brutal!


#6

I’m okay with it. Think of it in the other way around, if you beat someone higher than you, you will also get more trophies. In my last battle towards my 5000 goal, I beat a person above 5100 and got almost 50 trophies! Saved me a lot of time towards my goal.


#7

Coming from other MMR games this seems to work pretty well. You should get more points for pulling off an upset than you do beating someone lower than you. And vice versa, if you lose to someone higher than you, you don’t get penalized like you do if you lose to someone lower. Pretty stock for ELO based ratings, no?


#8

But why on earth I never fight ones below than me? (never is exaggerated but at-least if this happens its really like once in 15 battles). Always have to battle 400 to 450 trophies players higher than me.


#9

I’ve noticed that battling at different times of day affects who I play against dramatically. Here in the states, if I play around dinner time or on weekends I see a lot lower opponents but if I battle at 0100 AM or something I play much higher opponents. I think the more hardcore/invested folk will play at any time of day, whereas the casual player will not.

After all, Ludia can only match you up with other people who are looking to fight at that moment, they can’t force people to play if they don’t want to. I look at it as a challenge, if I play someone higher than me and I lose, I will lose 15-20, but if I win; it’s +30 or more! As long as I don’t lose too many to people lower than me, I still gain trophies overall.


#10

In this system being ~200 trophies higher than someone means you’re supposed to beat them 90% of the time (numbers aren’t exact ones used in the code obviously). So if you lose trophies 9x of what you gain when playing them, an equilibrium is reached. To advance further you need to increase your win percentage against them. Don’t see anything wrong with that tbh.

When you’re not #1 it works the other way too: beat someone higher than you and gain 50+ trophies, lose to them and you lose like 12.

The only thing I’d change is decrease all trophy gains/losses about 3x. I haven’t theoretically studied this model thoroughly, but I think that way it’ll be much less probable to get far ahead or below your average trophy level and we’ll have more fair matchmaking in a way.


#11

it’s kind of like NCAA sports. If you are the #2 team and play the #20 team… if you win, you might not be the #1, you’ll probably just stay #2, unless the #1 team loses. but if you lose you will probably be ranked like #10-#15 or so. and the #20 team will move up several spots. but now that you are #15, if you play the #2 team and win, then the scenario flips to benefit you the same way it did for the first team you lost to.

the problem being RNG again… :grin: … did you lose because their indoraptor’s dodge worked and your’s didn’t? Does that make them a better player than you? Of course not, but you’ll both be rewarded/punished like they are :man_shrugging: Trophies count also seems in check this way as no one has 40,000 trophies this tournament.


#12

My main point of emphasis was that when you’re higher up in rank there’s drastically less people you get matched up with for a system that rewards trophies based solely against other players and no longer benefit against AI, not even a minor value amount.

When you end up spending 20-30 minutes, or even an hour+, looking for an opponent to match up with and can only earn 1-4 trophies from all that waiting, it just becomes a waste of time. On top of that, the amount of trophies you lose when you do lose to someone you’d gain so little trophies from got wayyy too steep. 59 trophies lost to someone 25 ranks below you? Please, that’s insane.


#13

Me and u played last night and i lost and got a -1. So i see your point


#14

It’s not a waste of time if your competitors for the top spots have the same problem. Just the value of every trophy is much higher than at lower levels.

I can imagine a situation when you’re stuck getting +1-4 while your competitors battle at a different time of the day and therefore are able to battle each other or at least people in the top 10 and can gain more. THAT may be a problem.

I don’t see an obvious solution though without some other problem popping up.

Also, I don’t see anything wrong with losing 59 when you lose to someone a few hundred trophies below you, even if he’s the next person after you on the rankings.


#15

It’s a waste of time if im waiting around trying to put forth the effort to get in more battles and nothing comes for an elongated period of time. There’s no debate around that. Taking away the chance of earning any sort trophies from AI is the death of ambition. Look at most the top players, when you’re ranked as high as they are, they hardly have any reason to fight. The become complacent and accept the rank they’re at and just sit there, giving no incentive to fight.


#16

If you sit at the top and had that many trophies, you don’t need to fight I guess? People at the top all spent a lot and the incubator awards are nothing for them. If you want to fight, you can always drop down.


#17

You don’t get it. But it’s fine, my problem I guess is for a small minority.


#18

I guess I am confused here. I would expect to lose a lot more trophies for losing to an opponent ranked lower than me and gain fewer for winning. Why is that a bad thing? If you lose to someone ranked lower than you, you deserve to lose more trophies than you would gain from beating the same opponent. Why would you expect to be rewarded with more trophies for beating someone with less trophies than you?


#19

You completely missed the mark.

Past seasons, you beat someone much lower rank, you’d gain atleast 11 trophies from victory. You lose to someone much lower rank, you lost up to 49 trophies.

This season, you beat someone much lower rank, you’d gain atleast 1 trophy from victory. You lose to someone much lower rank, you lost up to 59 trophies.

So from that assessment, we can take that beating someone even lower rank than you offers little to no reward whereas a loss has much more to lose. I think we can all understand that concept, higher trophies are earned when an underdog beats a stronger loftier opponent. Nothing to argue there. It’s the pushed differential that becomes the problem where you have little to nothing to gain in victories when paired up against opponents that give 1 to 4 trophies and so much to lose if lost to opponents much lower rank than you.

Well, the cop out solution would be “just keep battling and if you’re good enough you’ll be back where you were before”. Well due to Ludia’s pairing matchmaking algorithm that pairs opponents up with folks that are within (I believe it’s) 250 trophy range, what do you do when there’s only 20-some odd people to be matched up against and spend 10’s of minutes, half hour, an hour+ looking for an opponent, because your opponents have become complacent in PvP and want to sit out on battling. How do you climb when you can’t earn the trophies to climb? Well naturally they offered ways around that in pairing you up against bots, but now with this season they’ve eliminated the possibility of earning trophies from battling bots, despite even giving them stronger dinosaurs to battle with, which leaves us in perpetual limbo of waiting for an opponent that’s not giving 1-4 trophies.

Riddle me that.


#20

For me the point is more the difficulty to reach top spots once someone make a gap. If the first player with 50 more trophy than you decide to stop battling, you have to fight lower player with winning 4-15 trophies while a loss take you away 40+. It means you need a ratio above 5:1 to keep climbing. And trust me it’s very hard no matter your team because a bad 4 pick or a bad dodge/crit can result in a loss.

But of course it affects only a minority. Personally I think the trophies awarded are fine, just the worst loss case scenario is maybe too harsh (-59 trophies for a 6/6 indo dodges ? Sounds bad)