Ludia Forums

Should Swap in Stunning Strike not go through armor anymore?

The Title says it all.
With so many people having a Ceramagnus or Monolorhino and have their damage boosted to crazy numbers, apart from Shields, no escape and on escape abilities (which there are very few of those) there is no other way to counter swap in stunning strike.
Increase the number of on escape abilities like on escape dust cloud or on escape evasive strike, or make it not pierce armor.

6 Likes

Agree. Siss shouldn’t go through armour.

3 Likes

Yes to more on escape options. No to SISS not going through armor.

1 Like

Why? Its an unnecessary effect that siss dosent need.

1 Like

It should peirce armor. Resilients are doing fine and don’t need additional protection from the swappers.

The only people who believe siss should pierce armor are the people who rely heavily on their swappers. It’s a pointless addition to an already powerful move. Remember when cautious strike “did too much” and everyone rallied against it? Remember when sidsr was wrecking the game and people rallied against it? Now we have a full damage armor piercing attack with a high stun change preventing retaliation and some players love it.

4 Likes

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it until the day I die. SISS IS NOT THE PROBLEM! The move has existed since 1.9, and while it can be annoying, it is still totally balanced. The problem stems from the creatures having it being too good, specifically a certain Apex.
MRhino is fine when you consider its almost horrible 1v1 (1250 T1 and then 3125 T2 coupled with no speed control or cleansing of any kind is pretty bad) and WRhino imo is balanced, but I can understand why some say it needs a nerf.

However, Magnus just has too good of a 1v1 to have such an awesome swap game, and that’s where the issue lies. Not Rhinos, not Rats, not SISS, it’s Magnus

5 Likes

No, it shouldn’t pierce armor. It’s a resilient move - fierce dinos (like DC*) are supposed to be the armor piercing creatures in this game.

We seriously need more offensive On Escape moves (I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again - let these be mostly cunning traits, most need a serious boost), and I still don’t understand why epics like Titanaboa have such good ones like On Escape Rampage yet uniques have paltry ones in comparison.

*not advocating for DC to get an upgrade to her swap in move

3 Likes

We do have a very good counter to this swap in damage that I’m surprised no one really talks about. Antarctovenator is really good at taking down magnus and in a boosted setting you can adjust its speed to be faster than the average magnus and swap in at the same time. It will also take down magnus in 2 turns as well. So the RK option is there too. In a boosted setting it also 2 turns the nitro mrhino.

2 Likes

I am not for or against this ability, as I have learned to deal with it. But I can see arguments from both sides have valid points.

3 Likes

I also voted against any changes to cautious strike! :rofl:

2 Likes

It’s still extremely dominant in all levels of skill tournaments though, it’s pretty much the only swap-in ability that you’re using and bringing specific creatures to counter. That can’t be said for any other individual ability in the game. You can have a creature with a bad moveset and stats like Stegoceratops still be relevant in a tournament with creatures as powerful as Rixis only because of the swap-in ability.

1 Like

It should not pierce armor, where is the basis for this statement? Resilient attacks are not armor piercing and this is a Resilient class move.

Not all Resilients are doing fine when it comes to this move. The Towers and Lux have high HP and stun resistance, but that’s where creatures like Dio and Tryko’s armor is supposed to balance for the lack of stun resistance and less HP.

1 Like

In my opinion SISS is balanced because the creatures that utilize it are usually sub par field fighters. Magnus being the glaring exception. SISS is balanced by the high prevalence of stun resistance and shields.

Piercing armor makes sense, a rhino charging into battle would be expected to pierce through tough hides.

Resilients as a whole don’t need any buffs and nerfing SISS in this manner would be a major buff to this oppressive class. Meanwhile, the dodging cunnings are still able to evade the move, so again it is really only punishing the resilient and fierce. Tryko and dio are two tyrants who don’t need any additional help in the arena.

Actually I think Dio could do with some. Regardless, Swap-in Stunning Strike happens to be on Resilients, so while removing the armour-piercing would buff resilients, it would also nerf them. If making some resilients worse against other resilient means less resilients overall then I’m all for the change, but it’s hard to tell.
AP on SISS doesn’t make sense by the class system though.

While true, that’s irrelevant. A raptor would be expected to lose to a T.rex, but class system.

I think this would be a huge net buff. The only widely used resilient with this move is magnus, while many notable resilients possess high amounts of armor. And the move isn’t strictly resilient, it’s a rhino/ceratopsian move (although these tend to be resilient). If we’re going to complain about SISS bypassing armor, we should go ahead and adjust Dio’s counter and remove the armor/ shield bypass on definite shield advantage as well, just to name a few.

At the end of the day a lot of creatures defy the class system so I don’t think that’s proper justification for altering SISS.

You seem to be ignoring tournaments and lower arenas entirely

They are strictly resilient, except for Monostego and Monolorhino.

Actually I’d suggest changing them both to Fierce Resilient, because in all honesty that’s what they are. They have reliable counters and are generally considered balanced though. I don’t think most want SISS changed exclusively because of the class system anyway, even if they were all part fierce they would still be the annoyances they are now.