Ludia Forums

Should you be able to cleanse stun?

I was waiting for an arena battle, and noticed a tip that I’d seen hundreds of times before, and something I’ve known since I first started playing, but never questioned: “Cleanse does not remove stun”. Even though stun is the only debuff not affected by cleanse, it does make perfect sense for this to be the case. If your dino is stunned, then they cannot act to cleanse themselves. This works fine for pvp, but the addition of raids (and potentially pvp team battles sometime down the line) makes me wonder if they should change this interaction for team battles.

The idea would be that you can cleanse your teammates of stun, but not yourself. So single-battle arena would not change at all. But if you were in a raid (or other team battle) and your opponent is stunned, and you can act before them, then you could use a group cleansing move to remove their stun, and then they would no longer be stunned and could attack successfully. However, if you yourself were stunned, then you could not use a cleansing attack to cleanse your stun, or even attack at all.

The only issue with this is that currently, stunned dinos have no choice but to choose “end turn” when stunned. So if they were cleansed, they would not have a move selected to use (unless they were cleansed at the end of the previous turn). So Ludia would have to let stunned dinos choose a move that they would prefer to use if they could, but then just not activate that move if the stun condition is applied when their turn comes around. That would mean that none of the effects of this move would take place, and the cooldown for this move would not start (it would still be available for use the following turn no matter what). This might act a bit finicky in arena, and they would have to make it crystal clear that you are currently stunned and probably won’t actually get to use this move, but I think it could be done.

All in all, I think this is a pretty cool idea. It makes sense for stun to prevent stunned dinosaurs from acting at all, but your teammates should be able to save you. I just don’t know if the behind-the-scenes coding would allow this to actually work. But what do you guys think?

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Stuns aren’t debuffs, so there’s no reason to cleanse.

If Mortem or the Unique boss had a stun move I’d be inclined to agree, but given it’s just the Mammotherium and Sinoceratops bosses, there’s no real need to make any additional changes to include Stun being cleansed.

If you lose your turn and can’t attack I would call that a debuff, but to each their own I guess. How would you classify it then?

I don’t really see this as a glaring problem that needs attention, but rather as an opportunity to enhance the game. And who knows, maybe a future boss will get a lot of use out of stun, and it’ll be useful then? It won’t be these bosses forever, and if they do add team pvp at some point it’ll definitely be useful then. It just adds depth to the game, and I don’t see that as a bad thing. Definitely not something that they need to solve right now, but also not something we should dismiss entirely.

A debuff is just something that negatively affects your stats. All Stunning does is force you or your opponent to skip your/their next turn, should it be successful. I wouldn’t classify it as anything other than that, an otherwise normal attack that as a chance of forcing the opponent to skip their next turn.

I definitely see where you’re coming from. I’m familiar with pokemon, and I’m guessing from your username that you probably are too. In pokemon, there are special conditions like sleep, paralysis, or poison (similar to DoT in JWA). There are also moves thay lower or raise a given stat directly (equivalent to distraction, deceleration, ferocity, etc.). But I would say that stuns are equivalent to flinching in pokemon, where you suddenly can’t attack after your opponent has moved, which is neither of these. That said, unlike flinching, stun can last into the next turn if you attacked before your opponent on the previous turn (at least I’m pretty sure flinching doesn’t work this way). So stun is definitely more of a lingering effect. But I would still argue that it should be considered a debuff, at least by my own definition. Effects in JWA fall into five categories: direct damage, applying negative effects to the opponent besides direct damage (stuff like distraction, deceleration, and DoT), removing a positive effect from an opponent (nullify, but also stuff like defense shattering removing shields or definite attacks removing shields and dodge), applying positive effects to oneself (ferocity, sheilds, dodge, healing), and removing negative effects from oneself (cleanse). Of these categories, stun definitely falls into “applying negative effects to the opponent”, which I personally call “debuffs”. And of this category, it is the only effect that cannot be cleansed. If you don’t think it belongs in this category, what differentiates it? It is certainly a negative effect applied to you by your opponent. I guess ultimately the only definition of debuff that matters is Ludia’s. But I would say that there would be precedent for stun to be cleansable, under certain conditions.