Spinosaurids buff


#1

Spinosaurids should receive a passive thst boosts bleeding, or anything that makes them better, because right now they kinda suck, and the new epic spinosaurus could use a buff too.


#2

Okay for those who have no clue what the spino actually does; level 12 epic spinosaurus GEN 2. Regular one is kind of similar.

Imo this guy doesn’t need a buff at all; bleed is already a very strong feature which i’d love to utilise more. Due to not spawning in my region / low levels i simply can’t use them over obvious better choices.

The reason why bleed is so good is because it can go through any shield and as far as i know even armor. It also doesn’t trigger counter-attack if it doesn’t do initial strike DMG. Exploit wound for example is a great shield / counter-attack counter. So if the enemy has armor you either counter with anti armor strikes or bleed. Bleed is so effective if used correctly and unfortunately current meta doesn’t have loads of tanks in it; mostly therapods who have other obvious counters like the raptor or slow impact / dmg reduction. Problem with anti-armor; a lot of those dinosaurs actually are very slow (allo, trex,…: 110-) While bleed dinosaurs mostly are pretty fast (120+). Most of those anti-armors also have crit: which still remains a chance game. Bleed is constant and consistent DMG you can control, critical is uncontrolable since you only have a ‘chance of’ critting.

The reason the spino bleed is so good is bcs you can inflict 1.5x DMG bleed AND have the other creature invulnerable. Calculate an other 1x dmg for your skill and you can pretty much deal 2.5x dmg which is still increased by invulnerable. Even if your spino dies the enemy dino highly likely dies to bleed too sooner or later. This caused me to have tied matches several times due to close fights. Mostly even heavily armored dinosaurs end up winning at first but afterwards getting killed by bleed.

If you use bleed correctly it is a very good and consistent DMG dealer; especially if you level them up even more. 122 speed is absolutely not bad, its even pretty decent and one of the faster dinosaurs. It will cause you to hit bleed or invulnerable much sooner for that DMG boost. It can be negated by switching (negative effect removed) but once again the bleed dinos are very fast thus able to strike twice, first. This allows you to control the situation by either forcing them to switch or die to bleed afterwards.


#3

XTheir health is still not the best and they can die in less than three turns to a dino with decent attack, and raptors are simply a better version of them, they are faster, do more instant damage, and some of them can even survive longer due to the pounce buff, and instant full damage will always be better than bleed, even though bleed can pass through shields, i don’t see a lot of shield dinos like i used too, because there are fast dinos that can break them such as dimetrodon and baryonyx and trex( i know is slow but still a counter to them because of its high health, which still be better than spino due to its high instant damage)that i see everywhere, which is a indirect nerf to bleed, the only dinosaur that i feel is a good spinosaurid is the spinotahraptor that has the distracting impact, and there are still other dinos that do that job better than him, hell even spinotasuchus is not that good, only thing going for him is speed, even then he still not the best.


#4

Maybe instead of a regular strike it could have “minor bleeding strike”; which is similar like the minor stunning strike. Just like before, they had this but it had been removed due to balancing:

“Spinosaurus, Spinotahraptor and Suchomimus have their Lesser Wounding Strikes changed to regular Strikes. In exchange, they gained more Hit Points.”

More hit points are always a good thing but im not sure how much they actually gained. I doubt it was enough in order for it to kill therapods - since they actually got decent buffs. In these matchups you highly likely always want more dmg over a control abillity (unless its DMG reduction or slowing impact offcourse). So hit points are not really going to save you vs doing more DMG.

It is 1x DMG and also does somewhere between .10-.25 x bleed DMG. On its own the attack isn’t strong but again; once combined with other bleeds it can ramp up the DMG over time. Combined with vulnerable it still can do decent DMG. I fought an AI spino GEN 2 level 21 which had 888 DMG. On turn 2 it pretty much did 1500 dmg + the regular DMG. Once again if used against shields/armor it is very effective since they don’t do that much DMG. DMG reduction also doesn’t counter bleed so eventually all you can do is either swap or cleanse. Oh well; late-game AI has a couple of armor / shield guys so in lockdown+ it could still be usefull. It also counters the indominus i believe it can’t dodge the bleed, for example. It has fair uses but just not in current meta imo and most of the time they need decent levels so they actually start doing some serious DMG.

The spinotahraptor indeed is the best bleed imo as well. Very usefull dinosaur! Imo it still remains a control creature which counters shields & possibly armor with consistent DMG. Just unfortunate current meta favors therapods which are indeed in genrral better over a bleed dinosaur. “Are you going to tank more bleed or also switch to negate negative effects?” Is the question that pops up once you’re affected. Mostly in the higher arenas i still lose left & right vs bleed but this possibly is because the AI still outlevels me, despite my team being all +15 and rare+, except for two which are common.


#5

Well i have to strongly disagree with you freds00n…
I think bleeding in its current form is pretty much useless. Flat damage is always better than bleeding. Bleeding strike does basically 1,5 damage in turn 1 and then 0,5 in turn 2. This makes 2x damage in 2 turns which is really weak. Strong attackers either can pierce armor or even break shields and they all have a better attacking stat.

The only way to make spinos relevant in the arena is to buff bleeding or increase the spinosaurids overall stats.

I like the idea of low wounding strike and i think a 0.75 bleeding damage multiplicator and a better attacking stat would be a nice :slight_smile:


#6

Its because bleed types are not used like most therapods; or in general how most players play. Bleed can’t be countered both by armor, shields and damage reductions so it will always do full damage no matter what. I easily counter most therapods with my dilo or koolasuchus since you only need one skill; dmg reduction. My level 16 dilo easily takes care of lv 20 flat dmg dealers and only because it has DMG reduction AND can remove positive effects; which most of those flat dmg dealers have (DMG boost). Even the koolasuchus can withstand heavy damage and live an other day; despite being outleveled. The only way they can die effectively is due to a lucky crit (which the koola can also negate and debuff) or instant swap for an other therapod. That most likely takes care of most therapods. Meanwhile spinos can still apply bleed and / or vulnerable and still do full DMG without having to ‘waste’ a turn to cleanse (and possibly heal) which doesn’t help against heavy DMG and speedy therapods. Legendaries sometimes have multiple DMG reductions and / or negative effect skills which will take care of any threat; even if it cleanses. Bleed can go through all of that; only hybrids or legendaries+ have cleanse while loads of rares already have DMG reduction skills or slow impact; which easily takes care of flat DMG dealers since they either out damage or out speed tanks. Only immunity can counter all those debuffs effectively.

Most of the time they are also faster than other dinosaurs due to their high speed which allows them to even do full dmg against DMG reduction skills, armor or shields for example. Sure don’t get me wrong anti-armor and anti-shield should always be used first vs armor or shields; thats what its meant for but bleed is also a perfect possibility if those are not around or if you want to slip in additional DMG.

Lastly you can also apply a hit-and-run tactic; apply exploit wound which causes 1x bleed and invulnerable for 2 turns; then swap to heavy DMG and the enemy will probably die within the next turn. Mostly they are too slow to react so don’t deal dmg but thanks to the bleed they still do some ‘dmg’; its not a wasted swap. Afterwards keep your heavy DMG and if this one dies, swap to your spino again to re-apply the effect, for example. Its mainly used to control the situation and either force your opponent to swap or take the DMG since it can’t be blocked or negated otherwise; only by cleanse. Thats where bleed shines; control. The dino anti-riot dino police lol. Its just that many players only utilise the big therapods since they are easy to catch and do consistent and loads of DMG; until they meet a dilo, koolasuchus or stegoceratops. Maybe even the kentro just for slowing impact and act first; which are very rarely seen in the arena. So current meta favors therapods while bleed dinosaurs don’t really have a purpose in this meta due to those dinosaurs not being used actively; but i warn you now the AI will lol.

I also mentioned the minor bleeding strike which imo should definitely be reverted and come back. Its a much-needed extra damage skill which makes bleed even more painfull. Don’t forget you can also apply an additional 1x next turn; so first hit 1.5, next round 1.5 again due to strike + bleed; so thats 3x DMG in two turns. Im not saying they shouldn’t be buffed but in the right hands and situation bleed can be very strong if needed. I definitely think they need to revert the minor bleeding strike; especially for rare+. Almost any epic has their basic attack buffed with vulnerability, remove effects, can’t swap,… Hence why you want them because they are so versatile. Its so unfortunate to see them having only ‘strike’. It takes away so much utility and versatile gameplay (same for other strikers :(. ).

Maybe even increase bleed duration from 2 to 3 turns for example. Perhaps adjust the dmg tick slightly but imo keep the dmg multiplier. Its similar like the shield buff. Shields only lasted for 2 turns; now certain dinos have 4 turn shields which is insane if you can’t counter it. This and hit-and-run tactics can make exploit wound a very useful skill in certain tactics; just the low round count makes it not so usefull. Essentially it is a mix of expose weak spot and exploit wound; merge those together but instead of 1x dmg, apply 0.5 - 1x bleed and invulnerable for 3 turns. Add delay:1 to balance it slightly since it will be a pretty powerfull skill, especially if you keep 1x bleed / turn. (Level 20 spino has 888 Dmg, thats nearly 3000 in 3 turns and vulnerable). Now thats a versatile skill! How to counter it? Immunity or cleanse.