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Swap-In Damage killing a dinosaur is an insurmountable value swing and a zero-interaction, intolerable mechanic

I really doubt that. Soooo many counters for nitro boosting would still exist, with priority damage, flocks, Ambush, etc. Thors max speed is 145. Testa reaches that with Dig In and 3 speed boosts. Scorpius exceeds that with 1 ambush and no speed boosts at all. Phorurex wouldnt even need to bother with speed with its priority Rampage. Once upon a time, Swap in attacks were really the only way to deal with nitro boosting, but not anymore. Who knows, maybe it would have been better if resilients still slowed. I’m honestly more worried about something like Cautious Cunning Rampage no longer having any damaging moves faster than itself than nitro boosting, but that’s currently just 1-2 dinos.

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This could be easily fixed by having speed boosts only giving 1 speed instead of two.

The problem I see with swappers is that they have either swap immunity or swap resistance. Probably to fix the dmg output from the creatures is to half what they do now. So creatures with SIA do swap in Head Butt, and the ones with rend do only .20 of the max health.

I think swapping is fine as a whole. Maybe the whole interaction of what moves have priority, and what actions take place first can be adjusted. Some swap on moves, imo shouldn’t have super priority. Should they have normal priority? Thst depends. But I feel as if a priority moves used by a creature on the field should go first over swap in damage. Like instant distraction should resolve first before a swapped in phorurex can use its swap in attack, but phorurex should still be able to go first over a thor’s rampage.

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I like this idea of priority moves being of higher priority than SI moves.

Thanks for this post OP. Is it very well written and reflects my concerns and observations fully. Sadly, I don’t really know what can be done so it’s not such a big issue. I feel like it will be inherently broken due to the core mechanics of the game.

Swap in SISS is the most problematic swap in, if you’re not resistant or immune to stun, you not only take damage but you lose a turn which is a major advantage, swap in damage without another effect on top is generally fine imo, if your creature is low on hp, it’s either going to get swapped on, revenge killed or you swap and another one of your creatures takes the hit instead. Swap ins with a singular effect like distraction or swap in invincibility are fine, neither lose a turn and it’s a gamble.

Take Dio for example, it’s full on hp, you swap into it with a MRhino, you stun it, not only is that Dioraja stunned but it takes damage and loses a turn.

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There aren’t ENOUGH counter measures for swappers. You seem to not get that. Most aren’t even that great. Once again Grypo is useless to many of the swappers because they are resistant or immune to its on escape.

Spino barely does anything when they swap out and most can cleanse or are immune to its bleed.

I also didn’t say a full swap team, did I? No. I said more than one.

Cera can still do almost 2.3k damage on a swap in and then another near 2.3k on its instant attack. Thats nearly the entire health of my Magna. If it crits on both hits, my magna is probably dead.

MonoRAT can literally brawl and survive for a while. Why do you think that pain in the rear is on most teams? Not only does it do a below the belt swap in attack, it is literally resistant to everything and is faster than its counters and can distract them until it can swap out. :roll_eyes:

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I’ve seen several 2.7k damage RhinoRats in Library and Gyro. 🤦🏻‍♀

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:grimacing:

Regular rhino does too much damage I swear. You can’t even distract or dodge the resilient impact and just hope you have a strong enough fierce dino to deal with it (I’m also looking at you advantage tourneys). At least rending actually works here for once :weary:

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I didn’t forget anything. Spinocon, hydraboa, IndoT, grypo, Pho, grykelen, ryicon, megalotops, teryx, etc. all do the trick.

I get it, trust me. There are so many anti-swap measures. And of course once on the field swappers can be easily dispatched.

Both are balanced and unable to cleanse the lockdown, meaning that they usually don’t escape. This allows you to bring in a revenge killer and punish them or set them up on the swap out.

You must of missed the part where I said MonoRAT can brawl and survive until it can swap out. :thinking:

Half the counters you mentions don’t quite do the trick either for various reasons.

Kind a hard to revenge kill it also when it distracts its counters (faster than most of them too), while its at full health after killing your previous creature. Most of the time you’re not going to have a counter for it either.

Anyway, you very clearly think nothing is wrong with them despite all the evidence me and others have made saying the opposite. I think you are very, very wrong. I am done with this conversation now as all we are doing is going in annoying circles. :roll_eyes:

It could be even more easily fixed if speed boosts increased speed by a percentage instead of a flat 1 or 2. That way, naturally fast things could stay faster without having to heavily invest in speed. Big tanky resilients could still add speed if they wanted to, but they’d have to use a lot more speed boosts than they currently do if they wanted to outspeed the other classes, making them weaker in other areas. It would help maintain the arena’s rock/paper/scissors foundation.

I also like the idea of swap-in moves using the creature’s speed to determine whether or not they take effect before the opponent’s move. It would make the arena more interesting if you had to predict a swap-in and time your shields or instant distraction just right.

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Wooly rino its hibrid and cera *cough *cough

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Boost build matters of course. But those counters all work very reliably. I know because I’ve seen them work.